Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus:

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by houston

As much as I don't like your posts because of your love for socialism and the left that want to destroy this country...

I'm just curious.... what is your opinion of devout born-again Apostolics who were born in (and live in) Belgium, Canada, Finland, or the Netherlands? Many are also devout socialists who feel it is a moral imperative for their respective societies, especially as it relates to health care. Are they evil?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'm just curious.... what is your opinion of devout born-again Apostolics who were born in (and live in) Belgium, Canada, Finland, or the Netherlands? Many are also devout socialists who feel it is a moral imperative for their respective societies, especially as it relates to health care. Are they evil?

I'm in Canada and some things about socialism are fine. Health care, parts of Canada enjoy provincial car insurance with much better rates, etc. But many things are bad about socialism. But I do know there's too much false propaganda against things like Medicare. We love Medicare.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I'm in Canada and some things about socialism are fine. Health care, parts of Canada enjoy provincial car insurance with much better rates, etc. But many things are bad about socialism. But I do know there's too much false propaganda against things like Medicare. We love Medicare.

I don't think any political philosophy of government is perfect. However, I lean more towards what you see in a social democracy. My fiancé has lived in Ely (UK), Brussels (Belgium) and Amsterdam (Netherlands). Her experience in coming back to America was really an interesting perspective. She said it was almost like traveling backwards in time. Crumbling roads, streets, and bridges. Smog. Advertisements everywhere with people clamoring to make a buck at every turn. Every man for himself, one might even trip you just to get the best seat in a movie theater. Rampant gun violence. Dirty and polluted smell in the air when it rains. Exceptionally high number of obese and otherwise unhealthy people who do not regularly visit a doctor. Fear over medical expenses. Crippling student debt for those who do attend college. Substandard wages that don't reflect the cost of living. Outdated and archaic public transportation systems. All found in the shadows of massive and beautiful sky-scrapers housing the corporate offices of billionaires who frankly have so many tax shelters they virtually pay nothing toward the common good.

I've spent time in Canada. When I was with my first wife we'd annually visit a small town called Outlet in Ontario. We stayed in a cottage on Charleston Lake where I'd write and reflect - a kind of sabbatical. I truly enjoy how laid back Canada is. I also enjoy the vast expanse of pristine wilderness uncluttered by signs and advertisements. I've tried to describe the lakes I've seen in Canada. Water so crystal clear you can see well beyond your own toes, sometimes to the bottom. I even explained how I'd fish off the dock by sight. I could actually see where entire schools of fish were congregating! LOL You could lower your line in the water and simply dance it in front of the fish you were wanting to catch. It was beautiful. The people also had a sense of being "Canadian". They didn't seem like every man was out for himself. They seemed to genuinely care for one another as a people, a nation. It's hard to explain these concepts and experiences to those who have never been to a place like that.

It's almost like we Americans have become the world's silly hillbillies chanting, "We're nummer ONE!" with our Styrofoam fingers waving in the air.... meanwhile we've slipped so far from being number one in almost every category except gun violence and incarceration....oh.... and people who believe in Big Foot. Frankly, America is becoming more and more like Brazil or Mexico than Singapore or Sweden.

I believe we can be a better nation than we are. Oh well... maybe I'm just a dreamer.

In my studies of the Old Testament, I found it rather shocking that ancient Israel would be classified as an economy based on agrarian socialism.

Wasn't the founder of Canada's healthcare system Tommy Douglas, a Christian minister turned politician?

[Aquila]

Many American Christians don't know the background of the man who wrote the Pledge of Allegiance, Francis Bellamy. He was a devout Christian Socialist.

The point?

One can be both a devout Christian and Socialist. In fact, Christians make the best Socialists.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Many American Christians don't know the background of the man who wrote the Pledge of Allegiance, Francis Bellamy. He was a devout Christian Socialist.

The point?

One can be both a devout Christian and Socialist. In fact, Christians make the best Socialists.

The Bellamy Pledge is the reason I turned down an invitation from the local SCV. I'm eligible, but refuse to take the Bellamy Pledge. He was not a 'Christian socialist' any more than Hitler was. He was a national socialist. One cannot be a socialist and a Christian at the same time. Christianity is Divine Right Monarchism, with Jesus Christ as King and the Bible as Law. Socialism is a humanistic form of Baal worship with the State as God and Man as the idol to be worshipped by the masses.

He was also what today would be called a racist.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The Bellamy Pledge is the reason I turned down an invitation from the local SCV. I'm eligible, but refuse to take the Bellamy Pledge. He was not a 'Christian socialist' any more than Hitler was. He was a national socialist. One cannot be a socialist and a Christian at the same time. Christianity is Divine Right Monarchism, with Jesus Christ as King and the Bible as Law. Socialism is a humanistic form of Baal worship with the State as God and Man as the idol to be worshipped by the masses.

He was also what today would be called a racist.

You sure we aren't related?

[Evang.Benincasa]

This is how we use to salute the flag, way before the German Socialists got ahold of the salute.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You sure we aren't related?

I'm sure we have the same Father and mother...

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I'm sure we have the same Father and mother...

Amen!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The Bellamy Pledge is the reason I turned down an invitation from the local SCV. I'm eligible, but refuse to take the Bellamy Pledge. He was not a 'Christian socialist' any more than Hitler was. He was a national socialist. One cannot be a socialist and a Christian at the same time. Christianity is Divine Right Monarchism, with Jesus Christ as King and the Bible as Law. Socialism is a humanistic form of Baal worship with the State as God and Man as the idol to be worshipped by the masses.

Yet the entire OT economy was a form of agrarian socialism (Jubilee's, gleaning rights, poor tithe, and other binding social traditions). I believe that Christianity is a spiritual faith, economics are largely human. However, an economic system on the left (communism) or right (anarcho-capitalism) can become oppressive and violate the Christian ethic.

He was also what today would be called a racist.

Sadly, most men of history were men of their time who held the popular biases of the culture, much like we see in Christianity today with Christians who would say a Canadian Christian, Dutch Christian, or Dane Christian who advocates democratic socialism can't be a true born again Christian.

Sadly, to say such reduces Christianity to being merely a political action committee with Jesus on top for American conservatism. And that's why American Christianity is dying. When you marry the Gospel to a specific body politic, and that body politic becomes corrupt, you've corrupted Christianity in the process.

But if you elevate Christianity to being a faith that enriches one's life and politics (regardless of what they are) you keep Christianity pure, and tend to make earthly institutions better. For example, the DFLA (Democrats for Life of America) has done far more in reducing the abortion rate than the traditional Prolife movement among Republicans.

Factoid: Switzerland and Belgium have the lowest abortion rates in the world (both under 10 per every 1,000 pregnancies). And they are liberal states based on Democratic Socialism. Think about it, comprehensive sex education, universal healthcare (with open access to contraception), subsidized daycare, and even subsidized daycare on college campuses. They have thoroughly addressed the needs of their citizens. There is almost no reason to justify aborting a child. However, in America, if a woman doesn't have health insurance she will not be able to pay for pre-natal care, delivery, or any post-natal care. Such could range upwards of $30,000.... but she can end the pregnancy for only $200. It's really no wonder why so many uninsured women living at or below poverty procure abortions in the United States.

You can say the logic is mistaken.... but the abortion rate in Switzerland and Belgium is truly something they should be proud of. Now, Mexico has more strict laws on abortion than we do, and their abortion rate is higher than that in the United States. Their economic conditions are also worse. Can't you see the relationship? Either way, Belgium and Switzerland should be praised for having some of the lowest abortion rates on earth.