The Trouble With Patience

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Advocate

Unfortunately a large number of people neither pay attention to difficult issues, nor do that have the brains to keep up with debate.

In the last General Conference, a resolution was introduced from within the Executive Comittee that fits the description that Pastor Poster provided.

The body was free to reject it. It did not. Neither was there any discussion. I was with men who this affected personally and who were very interested in the question, who were not favorable to it, but who did not debate it. They were aware it was in the works, but did not have an suffcient argument against it. If there were more time to consider it apart from some details of who would fill the office, etc., surely it would have been seen even more favorably by the larger body.

People inside the organization, departmentally conntected always have opinions and very distinct views on these matters, but that does not mean that a legal introduction of legislation is, in and of itself wrong.

I would hate to entertain the idea that government needs to be changed, just because things happened as a result of due process that we did not personally appreciate.

The formation of the Division of Publication was a good idea, in my view. Some did not like how it occured, and know personalities involved which color their thinking on the matter. Still, if General Superintendent Kenneth Haney is to be commended for organizational restructuring, even if every financial detail were not glistening with profitability, then this executive movement is also commendable. Having our publications all under single leadership is a very good idea.

This topic is a potential land mine to me personally, so I will navigate with more caution than I normally would.

My dissatisfaction is not so much with the resolution itself, as it is with the way it was presented. It was presented in such a way as to stifle debate. Very few men knew this was in the works, and the ones who did felt powerless to debate the issue.

There was also no time to debate it. After the bruhaha with resolution six, the majority of men were ready to feed their faces, and the entire resolution was a huge joke (literally).

In my opinion, government does need to change in response to this one singular event. It was, and is, and will continue to be - a disaster.

This was pushed with an ulterior motive. That, my dear Advocate, is wrong.

Dead wrong.

To me patients is waiting with anticipation
Apathy is not caring having no interest

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Sister Truth Seeker

To me patients is waiting with anticipation
Apathy is not caring having no interest

So, in regard to change, where are we Sister?

Is the church apathetic or just extremely patient?

[Nahum]

Posted by Advocate:
Then there is the fallacy of thinking that Bible schools ought to provide more than theological and ministerial training, or that these pursuits are not valid. Training ministry is a great objective and challenge. On one hand we can say that such training does not require Bible school. On the other hand we can say that it can very much benefit others.

The other question that we mix in too often is the issue of helping young people find the will of God. Maybe some Bible schools, when handed that job by careless parents or pastors, have succeeded here. Yet, this is no guarentee. The responsibility of local leadership to help young people hear the voice of God, even if as simplistically as Eli did with Samuel, is very great.

We can be certain that a young person who is superficially excited about the hope of becoming a minister who has no call of God, and who is not maturing as a Christian, is going to have problems.

Attempting to set a system in place that will meet every need, apart from Christians praying, walking in the Spirit, and individually choosing their career and education is a futile plan. Apostolic people become the laughing stock of the secularists, when they imagine that they can compete with the world's colleges with their efforts to staff a few schools with the paltry, and less than spectacular degree holders.

rrford alluded to the idea of Bible College helping a young person find the will of God in their life. Perhaps this is possible, and frequent.

But my daughter has been praying for several years for God to show her a life path. Maybe there are some young people who do not think of such things before high school graduation. If so, I am highly disappointed.

The job of any parent is to point the child toward an altar of committment. That altar does not necessarily need to be at an endorsed bible college.
To me, college is the end of the decision making process, not the beginning.

I am not against bible college. I am thankful for what I received at Gateway.

__________________________________________________ ______________

I don't think any of our bible colleges can compare to a liberal arts university, and honestly that is not my expectation. My only wish is that accredidation would become an immediate reality.

[stmatthew]

Before I post this, I want to say that I am not against any higher education. But I do feel that if we do not begin to stress and teach the workings of the spirit in our bible schools as much as we teach the letter of the law, we will help in fulfilling the following.

This is a paraphrased quote by the late Verbal Bean.


"The latter rain (latter splatter) that swept through Pentecost did great damage to many preachers and churches BUT I believe that we will see a far greater harm come in the future, while the latter-splatter was wild and foolish the coming harm will be sophisticated and extremely polished and driven by intellectual powers--this will destroy more than latter-splatter ever thought of destroying."

I think the greatest training a yong minister is going to encounter is a close relationship to his pastor, and use in his local church. The local Pastor should be the one that judges the young mans abilities and readiness for licensing. If he is not, then that is where the root of the problem is.

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I think the greatest training a yong minister is going to encounter is a close relationship to his pastor, and use in his local church. The local Pastor should be the one that judges the young mans abilities and readiness for licensing. If he is not, then that is where the root of the problem is.

Why do we in 21st century American culture insist on removing from the leaders of the CHURCH (i.e. the "five-fold" or "four-fold" ministry) their responsibility to equip the saints to do the work of the kingdom? Why do we insist that we need to have institutions and offices or functions that GOD did not establish in the Church? Is it not because the Church has become more like this present wicked world?

[Felicity]

Drat this thread. I've been trying to get pies made for the last couple hours and keep thinking about the topics discussed here and losing focus.

Drat the pies. They keep me from being able to focus and make some comments on some of the discussion here.













LOL!

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Drat this thread. I've been trying to get pies made for the last couple hours and keep thinking about the topics discussed here and losing focus.

Drat the pies. They keep me from being able to focus and make some comments on some of the discussion here.













LOL!

Well, I want a piece of pie...yes, I'm begging!!

[rrford]

Originally Posted by Esther

I think with in reason yes. But I believe the Bible is the best of course. There are some required reading such as Bernard's. He has some good material, but it is HIS opinions.

A lot of the recommended reading is just that opinions of the authors.

When you require reading their material you are then endorsing their opinions.

Most you may agree with, but who can possible agree with all?

I know there are a lot of good men out there now, that did not have required books to read and did not go bible college that does just fine.

Here again, is another thing to consider. Some pastors/teachers do more actual Bible teaching than others.

Then you have the conflict of my pastor taught this was wrong. The BC teaches it is ok. It of course, is going to cause confusion.

That is not a bad thing IF the student will study and pray and learn for himself.

I love BC and I am not against it. But I am so sick and tired of this generation becoming a generation of laws for everything. That concept seems to be bleeding into the church.

One of the main benefits of going to BC is making contacts for future revivals, it seems.

How many go and "learn" to preach but have not the anointing?

Why can't the Pastor recommend the person knowing that either they do know their Bible or they don't? Or why not have a reasonable test that shows whether or not they know the material?

After all, isn't that your main concern?

Esther, this post, particularly the part at the end of the post, shows you know little of the real structure of current BC education. I do not know of one BC that "teaches" anyone to preach. In fact, most BC's offer only one or two courses during a students entire enrollment that would deal with pulpit preachihg in some way.

As for it being a great place to book future revivals, such a comment is belittling to those who give their life to BC work.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by rrford

Esther, this post, particularly the part at the end of the post, shows you know little of the real structure of current BC education. I do not know of one BC that "teaches" anyone to preach. In fact, most BC's offer only one or two courses during a students entire enrollment that would deal with pulpit preachihg in some way.

As for it being a great place to book future revivals, such a comment is belittling to those who give their life to BC work.

BC can be a great place to network, yes?