3.5 years or 1260 years

[coksiw]

Speaking of Joel Richardson:

https://x.com/Joel7Richardson/status...69564468380098

Update concerning the status of the GRACE investigation of Frontier Alliance International (FAI) (for which I presently serve as the board chair):

In my last update, I expressed my hopes/expectations that the report would be out by August. Currently the investigation is still in process and appears to have several weeks remaining. Once the investigation is fully done, contractually they allow 60 days to create the report. This means it is likely still a few months out. I do understand that for some, waiting for this is very difficult. The good news is that they are being thorough. As always, thank you for your patience and prayers during this whole process.

First comment after the post:

Joel i do appreciate the way you handled this situation. You removed people from ministry right away and started the investigation right away. The exact opposite of what ihopkc did. Thank you!

His reply:

He did resign, but thank you. We're certainly trying.

Just to be clear, I am not a fan of, or see him as a spiritual leader of nothing. I don't even agree 100% with his teachings. I just wanted to make the record clear just because it bothers me when suspicion is spread without much evidence jumping into conclusion and affecting someone's public character perception. There is more to this than what was discussed in this forum.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I'm just giving definition from the Hebrew...

Linguistic Roots: The word "שבוע" (shavua) comes from the Hebrew root "שבע" (sheva), which means "seven."

Please look it up.

It's typically used for 7 days in a week, but that doesn't mean that's the literal definition of it.

Jacob had to work another week, literally week, to get Rachel. And that was 7 years.

That's not what Genesis 29 says.

[Genesis 29:18, 20 NKJV] 18 Now Jacob loved Rachel; so he said, "I will serve you seven years (sheba sanim) for Rachel your younger daughter." ... 20 So Jacob served seven years (sheba sanim) for Rachel, and they seemed [only] a few days to him because of the love he had for her.

Then,

[Genesis 29:27-28, 30 NKJV] 27 "Fulfill her week (shabua), and we will give you this one also for the service which you will serve with me still another seven years." 28 Then Jacob did so and fulfilled her week (shabua). So he gave him his daughter Rachel as wife also. ... 30 Then [Jacob] also went in to Rachel, and he also loved Rachel more than Leah. And he served with Laban still another seven years (sheba sanim).

Clear as water. Jacob waited total 7 years + one week to be able to be with Rachel.


The Septuagint also states it clear:

Laban said, It is not this way in our region, to give the younger one before the elder. Therefore finish the week for this one, and I will give you also this one for the work, which you will work with me yet another seven years. Jacob did so and completed the week for this one, and Laban gave Rachel his daughter, for him as wife... He loved Rachel more than Leah and served him another seven years.

The reason why the Lexicon says "seven of days or years" is because there is one book instance where "shabua" means symbolically seven years. But that's is an interpretation of the Lexicon, not an actually meaning of the word. It is like saying "sun" also means "father" because a prophecy had the "sun" meaning "father" symbolically. The Lexicon is incorrect. The only way to defend that "seven of years" is truly part of the semantic range is by proving that there are other places where the word is used to mean so that are not in the symbolic context.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Biblically speaking, there is a difference between "group" as a system of people united by something, and "individuals". There can be covenants with groups, and with individuals outside or inside the group (e.g., David within Israel). There can be a "group" that broke a covenant and then rejected/punished as a group, yet "individuals" inside the group kept the covenant and went well for them within the circumstances for the "group" punishment (e.g., remnants within Judah).

Paul explains that to some extent in Rom 11.

I know it seems strange, hard, and the logic may defy our reasoning, but unless the translator are doing a terrible job, that's what Paul says in Romans 11.

I don’t understand what you mean by your last few lines of your post. Could you clarify your thoughts?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by coksiw

You got a good point here: genealogy.

Thank you for considering the point.

[Esaias]

Every occurrence of the word shabua in the old testament:

Gen_29:27.. FulfilH4390 herH2063 week,H7620 and we will giveH5414 thee(H853) thisH2063 alsoH1571 for the serviceH5656 whichH834 thou shalt serveH5647 withH5973 me yetH5750 sevenH7651 otherH312 years.H8141
Gen_29:28.. And JacobH3290 didH6213 so,H3651 and fulfilledH4390 herH2063 week:H7620 and he gaveH5414 him(H853) RachelH7354 his daughterH1323 to wifeH802 also.
Exo_34:22.. And thou shalt observeH6213 the feastH2282 of weeks,H7620 of the firstfruitsH1061 of wheatH2406 harvest,H7105 and the feastH2282 of ingatheringH614 at the year'sH8141 end.H8622
Lev_12:5.. But ifH518 she bearH3205 a maid child,H5347 then she shall be uncleanH2930 two weeks,H7620 as in her separation:H5079 and she shall continueH3427 inH5921 the bloodH1818 of her purifyingH2893 threescoreH8346 and sixH8337 days.H3117
Num_28:26.. Also in the dayH3117 of the firstfruits,H1061 when ye bringH7126 a newH2319 meat offeringH4503 unto the LORD,H3068 after your weeksH7620 be out, ye shall haveH1961 an holyH6944 convocation;H4744 ye shall doH6213 noH3808 H3605 servileH5656 work:H4399
Deu_16:9.. SevenH7651 weeksH7620 shalt thou numberH5608 unto thee: beginH2490 to numberH5608 the sevenH7651 weeksH7620 from such time as thou beginnestH4480 H2490 to put the sickleH2770 to the corn.H7054
Deu_16:10.. And thou shalt keepH6213 the feastH2282 of weeksH7620 unto the LORDH3068 thy GodH430 with a tributeH4530 of a freewill offeringH5071 of thine hand,H3027 whichH834 thou shalt giveH5414 unto the LORD thy God, according asH834 the LORDH3068 thy GodH430 hath blessedH1288 thee:
Deu_16:16.. ThreeH7969 timesH6471 in a yearH8141 shall allH3605 thy malesH2138 appearH7200 (H853) beforeH6440 the LORDH3068 thy GodH430 in the placeH4725 whichH834 he shall choose;H977 in the feastH2282 of unleavened bread,H4682 and in the feastH2282 of weeks,H7620 and in the feastH2282 of tabernacles:H5521 and they shall notH3808 appearH7200 (H853) beforeH6440 the LORDH3068 empty:H7387
2Ch_8:13.. Even after a certain rateH1697 every day,H3117 H3117 offeringH5927 according to the commandmentH4687 of Moses,H4872 on the sabbaths,H7676 and on the new moons,H2320 and on the solemn feasts,H4150 threeH7969 timesH6471 in the year,H8141 even in the feastH2282 of unleavened bread,H4682 and in the feastH2282 of weeks,H7620 and in the feastH2282 of tabernacles.H5521
Jer_5:24.. NeitherH3808 sayH559 they in their heart,H3824 Let us nowH4994 fearH3372 (H853) the LORDH3068 our God,H430 that givethH5414 rain,H1653 both the formerH3138 and the latter,H4456 in his season:H6256 he reservethH8104 unto us the appointedH2708 weeksH7620 of the harvest.H7105
Dan_9:24.. SeventyH7657 weeksH7620 are determinedH2852 uponH5921 thy peopleH5971 and uponH5921 thy holyH6944 city,H5892 to finishH3607 the transgression,H6588 and to make an endH2856 of sins,H2403 and to make reconciliationH3722 for iniquity,H5771 and to bring inH935 everlastingH5769 righteousness,H6664 and to seal upH2856 the visionH2377 and prophecy,H5030 and to anointH4886 the most Holy.H6944 H6944
Dan_9:25.. KnowH3045 therefore and understand,H7919 that fromH4480 the going forthH4161 of the commandmentH1697 to restoreH7725 and to buildH1129 JerusalemH3389 untoH5704 the MessiahH4899 the PrinceH5057 shall be sevenH7651 weeks,H7620 and threescoreH8346 and twoH8147 weeks:H7620 the streetH7339 shall be builtH1129 again,H7725 and the wall,H2742 even in troublousH6695 times.H6256
Dan_9:26.. And afterH310 threescoreH8346 and twoH8147 weeksH7620 shall MessiahH4899 be cut off,H3772 but notH369 for himself: and the peopleH5971 of the princeH5057 that shall comeH935 shall destroyH7843 the cityH5892 and the sanctuary;H6944 and the endH7093 thereof shall be with a flood,H7858 and untoH5704 the endH7093 of the warH4421 desolationsH8074 are determined.H2782
Dan_9:27.. And he shall confirmH1396 the covenantH1285 with manyH7227 for oneH259 week:H7620 and in the midstH2677 of the weekH7620 he shall cause the sacrificeH2077 and the oblationH4503 to cease,H7673 and forH5921 the overspreadingH3671 of abominationsH8251 he shall make it desolate,H8074 even untilH5704 the consummation,H3617 and that determinedH2782 shall be pouredH5413 uponH5921 the desolate.H8076
Dan_10:2.. In thoseH1992 daysH3117 IH589 DanielH1840 wasH1961 mourningH56 threeH7969 fullH3117 weeks.H7620
Dan_10:3.. I ateH398 noH3808 pleasantH2530 bread,H3899 neitherH3808 cameH935 fleshH1320 nor wineH3196 inH413 my mouth,H6310 neitherH3808 did I anoint myself at all,H5480 H5480 tillH5704 threeH7969 wholeH3117 weeksH7620 were fulfilled.H4390

The word occurs 19 times. Of those 19 times, it occurs in Daniel 8 times. Of those 8 times, 6 are in reference to the Seventy Weeks prophesied time period. So out of 19 instances of the word shabua, 6 are the particularly disputed ones in Daniel, and the other 13 throughout the rest of the old testament (including twice in Daniel outside the Seventy Weeks prophecy). The 13 occurrences of shabua ALL refer to a week. A week of DAYS. There is no other word in Hebrew for a week except shabua, and the word shabua is not used for anything OTHER than a week of seven days.

Since the Seventy Weeks prophecy does not include any information specifying that it concerns a heptad of years, the only reasonable and sane conclusion is that the word means literally "week". Now, it just so happens that the prophecy was fulfilled over a timespan of not literal weeks, but years. Specifically, "weeks of years". This is incontrovertible proof that the prophecied weeks (shabua, 7 day period) was fulfilled across literal "weeks of years" (hebdomads of years), that is to say, the Year-Day Principle is clearly on display.

The word shabua means week. The reason Strong mentions "or of years" is because of its particular use in Daniel's Seventy Weeks Prophecy, which everybody acknowledges concerned literal years not literal days. That it to say, even though the prophecy uses the word for weeks, it is universally understood to be fulfilled in hebdomads ("weeks") of years. IE the Year-Day Principle.

Once again, the word is never used in Scripture to mean anything other than the same thing the English word "week" is used to mean.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Speaking of Joel Richardson:

https://x.com/Joel7Richardson/status...69564468380098



First comment after the post:



His reply:




Just to be clear, I am not a fan of, or see him as a spiritual leader of nothing. I don't even agree 100% with his teachings. I just wanted to make the record clear just because it bothers me when suspicion is spread without much evidence jumping into conclusion and affecting someone's public character perception. There is more to this than what was discussed in this forum.

Thanks for the additional information.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by coksiw

You got a good point here: genealogy.

Yes, and when the northern 10 tribed House of Israel was divorced in Hosea chapter 1, and declared to be Lo-Ammi, "not my people", their geneological fate was sealed - they lost legal right to the title "Israel", they lost their citizenship, they lost a genealogical claim to being identified as "Israel" in any legal sense. They were now literally "Not My People".

BUT,

That did not and cannot change the bare fact that they were actually descended from Jacob, and therefore the Abrahamic Covenantal promises regarding those descendants (which was based on the obedient faith of the Patriarchs, and not of their descendants themselves) continued to operate. Thus, they would still increase to become "as the sand of the sea and stars of heaven", and eventually in the place where it was said to them "You are not My people" instead they would be declared to be "sons of the living God". That is, there would be a reversal of their condition and status. They would cease to be strangers and foreigners from the commonwealth of Israel. They would in fact be reunited with Judah and become one people under one Head (Messiah).

So these people did not and do not have any genealogy to provide a legal basis for covenant status. If they did, they would be established as Israel but under the law, rather than under grace. Christ came to provide an atonement for them, to cover their iniquity and rebellion, to remove their sin, to save them from their sins, and to restore or redeem them (purchase them back) to God. So they are grafted in via faith in Christ, and not via the law or the deeds of the law.

As these multitudes of nations (descended from Jacob) are conformed to the image of Christ (to which they were predestined), the fullness of the nations (the multitude of nations they were promised to become) comes in (to the new covenant). And in this manner "all Israel will be saved". That is, it is not just a remnant of the House of Judah that would satisfy the conditions of "all Israel shall be saved", but the fullness of nations (of the House of Israel) united together with Judah. All 12 tribes, not just one small remnant of a couple tribes.

And to really throw a wrench into things, none of this has to do with the people today calling themselves "Jews" (Judeans). Once we understand these things, we are able to look at prophecies and stop trying to force them into a modern "Jewish" paradigm.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Yes, and when the northern 10 tribed House of Israel was divorced in Hosea chapter 1, and declared to be Lo-Ammi, "not my people", their geneological fate was sealed - they lost legal right to the title "Israel", they lost their citizenship, they lost a genealogical claim to being identified as "Israel" in any legal sense. They were now literally "Not My People".

BUT,

That did not and cannot change the bare fact that they were actually descended from Jacob, and therefore the Abrahamic Covenantal promises regarding those descendants (which was based on the obedient faith of the Patriarchs, and not of their descendants themselves) continued to operate. Thus, they would still increase to become "as the sand of the sea and stars of heaven", and eventually in the place where it was said to them "You are not My people" instead they would be declared to be "sons of the living God". That is, there would be a reversal of their condition and status. They would cease to be strangers and foreigners from the commonwealth of Israel. They would in fact be reunited with Judah and become one people under one Head (Messiah).

So these people did not and do not have any genealogy to provide a legal basis for covenant status. If they did, they would be established as Israel but under the law, rather than under grace. Christ came to provide an atonement for them, to cover their iniquity and rebellion, to remove their sin, to save them from their sins, and to restore or redeem them (purchase them back) to God. So they are grafted in via faith in Christ, and not via the law or the deeds of the law.

As these multitudes of nations (descended from Jacob) are conformed to the image of Christ (to which they were predestined), the fullness of the nations (the multitude of nations they were promised to become) comes in (to the new covenant). And in this manner "all Israel will be saved". That is, it is not just a remnant of the House of Judah that would satisfy the conditions of "all Israel shall be saved", but the fullness of nations (of the House of Israel) united together with Judah. All 12 tribes, not just one small remnant of a couple tribes.

And to really throw a wrench into things, none of this has to do with the people today calling themselves "Jews" (Judeans). Once we understand these things, we are able to look at prophecies and stop trying to force them into a modern "Jewish" paradigm.

Because individuals don’t understand the above. They build a paradigm based on Zionism, Judaic and Christian. Which causes them to place Modern Israel as the main focus of eschatology. While the Church is just placed as the concubine of Jesus Christ.

[Amanah]

Thoughts on Romans 9-11

Jesus' initial focus was on the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 10:6, 15:24), emphasizing His mission to restore and redeem His people. After Pentecost, the Apostles preached to the Judeans, who rejected the Gospel (Acts 2-5). This rejection led Paul to declare that the Gospel would now be preached to the Gentiles (Acts 13:44-46, 18:5-6, 28:25-28).

The subsequent destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by Titus in 70 CE resulted in the scattering and integration of Judeans among the Gentiles, leading to a loss of their identity. This dispersion, however, played a crucial role in the expansion of the Gospel, as Judeans and Gentiles alike became part of the emerging Christian communities. (Basically the uniting of the house of Israel and Judah).

The ultimate salvation of "all Israel, the Israel of God" (Galatians 6:16) is indeed fulfilled through the global preaching of the Gospel. As Judeans became integrated with Gentiles (the lost sheep) and obeyed the Gospel, they contributed to the salvation of "all Israel." This aligns with Paul's writings in Romans 9-11, where he discusses the relationship between Israel and the Gentiles in God's plan of salvation.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Thoughts on Romans 9-11

Jesus' initial focus was on the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 10:6, 15:24), emphasizing His mission to restore and redeem His people. After Pentecost, the Apostles preached to the Judeans, who rejected the Gospel (Acts 2-5). This rejection led Paul to declare that the Gospel would now be preached to the Gentiles (Acts 13:44-46, 18:5-6, 28:25-28).

The subsequent destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by Titus in 70 CE resulted in the scattering and integration of Judeans among the Gentiles, leading to a loss of their identity. This dispersion, however, played a crucial role in the expansion of the Gospel, as Judeans and Gentiles alike became part of the emerging Christian communities. (Basically the uniting of the house of Israel and Judah).

The ultimate salvation of "all Israel, the Israel of God" (Galatians 6:16) is indeed fulfilled through the global preaching of the Gospel. As Judeans became integrated with Gentiles (the lost sheep) and obeyed the Gospel, they contributed to the salvation of "all Israel." This aligns with Paul's writings in Romans 9-11, where he discusses the relationship between Israel and the Gentiles in God's plan of salvation.

One Gospel to one worldwide people.