LOL...God does not have to make sense and I suppose that's good reason for you to not make sense either?
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The word says that Adam was created in the image of him that was to come. This he said refferring to Jesus.
Wrong. I used to think this to. This is what the verse actually says
Rom 5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
Adam is a TYPE of Christ. It never says he was created in the image of Christ. Adam was made in the image of Elohim....God. There is only ONE image and ONE likeness in Genesis 1:27 and that image is Elohim God.
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It also says that all things were made by him and without him was not anything made that was made.
And? So you believe Jesus was already a man way back then and as a man he created?
Can you answer my questions and points now?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Through the foreknowledge of God, Adam was made in the image of God which is Christ. I don't separate Christ's humanity from his deity (Nestorianism) , He is one human being who is God in the flesh.
So are we made after the image of the divine or human? What exactly does image mean to you? Where does the bible say we are made after the image of Christ?
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When we see Jesus, we see God.
We see a physical representation of God's person.
We men are the image and glory of God
1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to have his head covered, because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
I think you all are reading way too much into this. Paul said Jesus was MADE from a woman and after the seed of David. Jesus's humanity came from man that was already created. We are both the image of God. Jesus, however is more in that He possessed the Divine nature as well. So he could say "when you see me you have seen the Father"
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He is our perfect example of how to live the way God created us to live. God in his human body is just as much God in Spirit. Jesus did not count it robbery to be equal to God, but he humbled himself as a man and submitted to the will of his Father.
I don't see how that proves anything pertaining to this discussion
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The Son of God is the express image of the invisible God. If you want to see God, look at the Son. The Son is the ONLY image of God we will ever see and we are made like Him or in his image.
You are mixing two verses here. He is the express image of God's person. That word for image is different than the one where it says the image of the invisible God. And Yes Jesus is the visible image of God. He is God incarnate. But we were made in the image of God, not his body. We ARE the image and glory of God as well. There is one image we were made in. I'd like to think it meant more than just a physical shell. Also Jesus died. Adam would not have died if it were not for sin. If we were made in the image of Jesus's human body then Jesus could not have been killed on the cross. Rather Jesus was made like us.
Rom 1:3 about His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, who was made of the seed of David according to the flesh,
2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel,
Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
‘Then the LORD God said, “behold the man has become like one of us, to know good and evil ….’ (Genesis 3:22a).
The unfallen angels in heaven don't know evil, for they know only good, being unfallen. Only the omnipotent God knows (understands) both good and evil, though he only practices good, for although being omniscient, he understands and knows of all types of evil, but of course, without ever partaking in it. However, if the unfallen angels in heavens did know both good and evil then they'd consequently be omniscient, which an incommunicable divine attribute which God cannot transfer to any part of his creation.
"The image" could also be interpreted as the image of God's attributes.
His emotions. Anger, mercy, love, hatred, justice, compassion and so on.
His eternal existence. The soul will live forever somewhere.
His ability. To create, to destroy, to speak, to think.
This is impossible, as God's divine attributes don't possess the ability to cognate. The 'us' refers to the Yahweh God himself, who is Father and Son (Hebrews 1:8) and Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4). The unfallen angels in heaven don't know evil and so the 'us' can't refer to them as they only know good.
‘Then the LORD God said, “behold the man has become like one of us, to know good and evil ….’ (Genesis 3:22a).
The unfallen angels in heaven don't know evil, for they know only good, being unfallen. Only the omnipotent God knows (understands) both good and evil, though he only practices good, for although being omniscient, he understands and knows of all types of evil, but of course, without ever partaking in it. However, if the unfallen angels in heavens did know both good and evil then they'd consequently be omniscient, which an incommunicable divine attribute which God cannot transfer to any part of his creation.
You just made God a fallen God by equating knowledge of good and evil with a fallen state. Perhaps you'd take a stab at doing more than just making assertions and back them up with scriptures and logic
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
LOL...God does not have to make sense and I suppose that's good reason for you to not make sense either?
I am talking about sense in the form of common sense, logic or knowledge.
When you try to think in terms of God inhabiting ALL of time at once (and i am assuming that you believe that he does) it is very difficult for MY finite mind to comprehend.
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Originally Posted by Praxeas
Wrong. I used to think this to. This is what the verse actually says
Rom 5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
Adam is a TYPE of Christ. It never says he was created in the image of Christ. Adam was made in the image of Elohim....God. There is only ONE image and ONE likeness in Genesis 1:27 and that image is Elohim God.
The base word that is used actually is
tupos
a die (as struck),
Anyhting beyond that is an analysis.
A die is
Mech. any of various tools or devices, originally cubical in form, for molding, stamping, cutting, or shaping; specif.,
a) a piece of engraved metal used for stamping money, medals, etc.
If you have a stamp of something or a mold of something You can call it what you want, A type, figure, form, pattern, print. The King James calls it figure, NIV calls it Pattern, Amplified - type (pre figure). Call it what you want, God created Adam in the form of the perfect man that was to come. That is Jesus Christ.
Do you not bellieve that Jesus was God manifested in the flesh?
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Originally Posted by Praxeas
And? So you believe Jesus was already a man way back then and as a man he created?
Can you answer my questions and points now?
I don't think that Jesus was a man back then but i do believe that just as you are able to step out of one room in your house into another room and still be in your house, God can step out of one area of time into another, be it past present or future, and see things that are not (as far as we are concerned) as though they were. And in that manner He could have spoken a prophetic utterance to the son.
I am talking about sense in the form of common sense, logic or knowledge.
When you try to think in terms of God inhabiting ALL of time at once (and i am assuming that you believe that he does) it is very difficult for MY finite mind to comprehend.
I think God makes sense and is a logical being. Being able to comprehend something does not mean God is an illogical being or does not make sense.
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The base word that is used actually is
tupos
a die (as struck),
Anyhting beyond that is an analysis.
]
The word actually used in hebrews 1:3 is the same word we get character from
charaktēr khar-ak-tar'
From the same as G5482; a graver (the tool or the person), that is, (by implication) engraving (["character"], the figure stamped, that is, an exact copy or [figuratively] representation): - express image.
The other words used, of which we were references is where we got our word icon from
i-kone'
From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
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A die is
Mech. any of various tools or devices, originally cubical in form, for molding, stamping, cutting, or shaping; specif.,
a) a piece of engraved metal used for stamping money, medals, etc.
If you have a stamp of something or a mold of something You can call it what you want, A type, figure, form, pattern, print. The King James calls it figure, NIV calls it Pattern, Amplified - type (pre figure). Call it what you want, God created Adam in the form of the perfect man that was to come. That is Jesus Christ.
Wrong. You got the right word in that verse but you have the wrong grammar
It does NOT say God created Adam in the form of Jesus. It says Adam was a TYPE of Jesus. Do you know what TYPEOLOGY is? It does not say Adam was created after a type of He who was to come. It says Adam IS A TYPE of He who was to come. Melchezidek is also a type of Christ.
That is all it says, anything more is reading into the text what is not there. It simply and only says Adam was a type of Christ, not Adam was made after the image of Christ.
Do you not bellieve that Jesus was God manifested in the flesh?
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I don't think that Jesus was a man back then but i do believe that just as you are able to step out of one room in your house into another room and still be in your house, God can step out of one area of time into another, be it past present or future, and see things that are not (as far as we are concerned) as though they were. And in that manner He could have spoken a prophetic utterance to the son.
The verse in question is not a prophecy. It's a creative act.
God made all things "dia" the Son. It was God doing the creating so one must ask how does God create BY or DIA (greek) the son.
Here is another verse...Christ was made like us Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
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Was not Christ the lamb slain before the foundation of the world? 1 Peter 1:19-20
yes...how does that show Christ is the image or that Adam was made in Christ's image and not the other way around? God also chose us before all creation too...what does that show?
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Your struggle is not with me it is with the word of God.
I
That is all it says, anything more is reading into the text what is not there. It simply and only says Adam was a type of Christ, not Adam was made after the image of Christ.
So you don't think Adam was made in the image of Christ?
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Praxeas, I am sorry. I am having a hard time figuring out why you have so much difficulty with what i have said. One day we will find out for sure, but until then i believe that i have given the most scripturally based answer to the question at hand. The truth of the matter is you don't know and niether do I. Until then we just need to keep seeking the mind of God and try to be more like Him.
BTW, I apologize for what i said in the earlier post about you having a problem with the word of God. The truth is we all have troubles with it in some way or another, None of us knows it all.
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