Is there going to be a rapture????

[Sean]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i would agree that in the 'seen,' this might prove to be true; but i wonder if we aren't using the wrong definition for 'israel' in this context, which may very well turn out to be israel's spiritual descendants, that is to say 'living stones,' and not the nation itself. While i surely can't prove this, i reiterate that many believers now doubt that the extant 'nation' of israel has anything to do with the 'fig tree budding' of Scripture.

i was raised in that belief, but have come to doubt it quite strongly myself.

I understand completely your feelings, but I personally must try to look at these passages in their original context as seen through the writers themselves. In my opinion, the safest place to be in eschatology is to minimize any outside symbolisms or applications as much as possible. Sometimes they are necessary, but if you open that door, it is up to random endless reinterpretations with man as the final interpreter.

The way I teach prophecy, I use very little explanation and present the passages in their original intent. My style is to just help guide the student to see the passage clearly for themselves,with their own bible, without me "indoctrinating" them with my personal ideas.


Remember this...there is only ONE interpretation to a passage, but MANY applications. The trap we can easily fall into is to make one of the applications into the actual interpretation.(thats how false doctrine gets started in the beginning stages)

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by Carl

The grave.

Our bodies go to the grave. Our spirits and souls do not.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Carl

The grave.

True. The grave (Sheol) is our home UNTIL the resurrection.

6Turn from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day.

7For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.

8Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;

9Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.

10But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

11As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:

12So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

13O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

14If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

15Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands. Job 14:6-15

[Carl]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

True. The grave (Sheol) is our home UNTIL the resurrection.

6Turn from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day.

7For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.

8Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;

9Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.

10But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

11As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:

12So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

13O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

14If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

15Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands. Job 14:6-15

Amen Brother! I'm convinced of it.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Sasha

Our bodies go to the grave. Our spirits and souls do not.

i have to say that i agree with that, and the comments above--and yet i think the mental picture this inevitably gives us is off, simply because of how we think as humans.

[shazeep]

i think a 'believer' might be able to chat with Hitler; or Saul, there, if they wanted. Samuel will surely be busy

[Sean]

Im just curious, there are some that do not believe in an eternal hell, even on this forum. Without any rebuttal on my part,(unless it is requested from me), would some of you give me your opinion of whether you believe in an ETERNAL hell. No lengthy explanations are necessary, unless you feel the need...Thanks.

[shazeep]

I think we misunderstand the meaning of 'eternal' in that context, possibly.

[Sean]

Eternal, as in, forever without end.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Sean

Eternal, as in, forever without end.

Yes.