How Old is the Earth?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Again the difference is something that is rapidly aged, to an end state, versus something that show's history -which never occurred. God cannot lie.

aging of wine shows history! It takes time to age wine!

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I would disagree profoundly with this last part. I do not believe it is possible for God to create our Universe with an appearance of age and "fake" history because God simply cannot lie. When philosophers ask the question "Can God create a stone so heavy that He cannot lift it?", the answer is yes. Yes He can. At this point someone will point out that God can send a deception but that is not the same thing. He is NOT sending blatantly false info but rather allowing the human brain to believe what it wants to. Can God create something which looks aged or weathered on the surface? I see no reason why He cannot but there will be ZERO history to be gleaned from such an object. God could create an adult tree, even one with rings, but those rings will NOT tell a story of an existence that this tree lived through which did not happen. No fire that it miraculously survived during it's 19th year or beetle onslaught during it's 40th.

We see our world and Universe full of such histories and details.

Well stated. And the Bible says that the heavens declare the glory of God. God creates things to tell of His majesty. Why would a God who cannot lie create a world that demonstrates a history that never occurred when He could create a world that demonstrates clearly that this universe has a mere 6000 years of history.

Not only is that a lie but it fails to properly demonstrate a truth that would speak for which He deserves glory. He deserves glory either way. To create a universe is an amazing thing... even for God. But God doesn't want misdirected glory. He wants to be worshiped in spirit and in TRUTH.

Some say the only reason to go beyond 6000-7000 years of history is because of some lack of faith in what God can do. That is absolutely untrue. It takes as much "God" for the gap theory as it does for the young earth theory.

But the only reason to dogmatically tie down the Bible to 6000-7000 years is to keep ones own interpretation a possibility. There is no biblical reason to do so... only ones personal beliefs.

There is a difference between letting the word speak and making the word talk.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

aging of wine shows history! It takes time to age wine!

*sigh* You just can't see the forest for the trees.

But when Jesus turned the water into wine... it was a miracle. A miracle is a one time even that knowingly and even purposely deviates from known natural processes.

It takes time for things to heal... unless there is a miracle.
Some conditions cannot be healed... unless there is a miracle.
A few loaves & fishes will not feed a multitude... unless there is a miracle.

A miracle is not only miraculous but it makes no attempt to convince you that it happened within the realms of everyday reality. As a matter of fact it touts itself as having done the exact opposite.

Use an example that wasn't a miracle. Oh... wait... you can't do that... because God is a liar.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

*sigh* You just can't see the forest for the trees.

But when Jesus turned the water into wine... it was a miracle. A miracle is a one time even that knowingly and even purposely deviates from known natural processes.

It takes time for things to heal... unless there is a miracle.
Some conditions cannot be healed... unless there is a miracle.
A few loaves & fishes will not feed a multitude... unless there is a miracle.

A miracle is not only miraculous but it makes no attempt to convince you that it happened within the realms of everyday reality. As a matter of fact it touts itself as having done the exact opposite.

Use an example that wasn't a miracle. Oh... wait... you can't do that... because God is a liar.

Aw that is the point creation, the beginning was a miracle. What God can do in one day takes hundreds of years naturaly. Jesus turning water into wine proves this.

And it is not that God created the world to look old. He did not. It is our perspective that makes us think the world is old. Jus because we think we have things figured out with carbon dating etc does not make it so. Science has been proven wrong before.

Dinosours what of them they don't prove earth is old all they prove is that they did not survive after the flood. Much like the mamoth elephant did not survive in north america.

Here is a thought, throw out every teaching you have been taught and slow down and reread Genisis chapter 2-3 I know that I have seen so many things when I did this.

But then maybe it is too hard to think for yourself.

[Digging4Truth]

I'm going to try one more time and then I am out. This is senseless.

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Aw that is the point creation, the beginning was a miracle. What God can do in one day takes hundreds of years naturaly. Jesus turning water into wine proves this.

Yes it was... but why would God purposely create structures & features that falsely demonstrated age?

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

And it is not that God created the world to look old. He did not. It is our perspective that makes us think the world is old. Jus because we think we have things figured out with carbon dating etc does not make it so. Science has been proven wrong before.

Carbon dating has nothing to do with this conversation. Carbon dating is only accurate back to about 4000 years or so and the use of carbon dating to date things millions of years old is not reliable. Carbon dating has nothing to do with this conversation.

I am talking about geological features such as the 3700 mile line of islands & underwater mountains that ends with the Hawaii islands. This chain was formed over ONE plume and has been created as the tectonic plates of the earth moved slowly over the plume. This demonstrates eons...

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Dinosours what of them they don't prove earth is old all they prove is that they did not survive after the flood. Much like the mamoth elephant did not survive in north america.

Dinosaurs and mammoths were created at creation and could not survive after the flood. Dinosaurs and mammaths were created about 6000-7000 years ago. I don't deny that. Never have.

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Here is a thought, throw out every teaching you have been taught and slow down and reread Genisis chapter 2-3 I know that I have seen so many things when I did this.

But then maybe it is too hard to think for yourself.

Brother... it was only when I gained an ability to think for myself that I saw these things. You are speaking as through there is a mirror on your monitor.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

*sigh* You just can't see the forest for the trees.

But when Jesus turned the water into wine... it was a miracle. A miracle is a one time even that knowingly and even purposely deviates from known natural processes.

It takes time for things to heal... unless there is a miracle.
Some conditions cannot be healed... unless there is a miracle.
A few loaves & fishes will not feed a multitude... unless there is a miracle.

A miracle is not only miraculous but it makes no attempt to convince you that it happened within the realms of everyday reality. As a matter of fact it touts itself as having done the exact opposite.

Use an example that wasn't a miracle. Oh... wait... you can't do that... because God is a liar.

Isn't creation a miracle?

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Isn't creation a miracle?

Okay brother. Have at it. You either cannot comprehend the statement we are making, are completely ignoring the statement we are making or can so completely see only what you believe that nothing else exists.

I would continue this if you were debating what we were saying but each post you just ignore what we say and make a similar statement as if you weren't even listening to what we have to say.

Have a great day. And I mean that. No aggravation. No animosity. Nothing but a pure unadulterated desire that you have a wonderful day. Ciao.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Okay brother. Have at it. You either cannot comprehend the statement we are making, are completely ignoring the statement we are making or can so completely see only what you believe that nothing else exists.

I would continue this if you were debating what we were saying but each post you just ignore what we say and make a similar statement as if you weren't even listening to what we have to say.

Have a great day. And I mean that. No aggravation. No animosity. Nothing but a pure unadulterated desire that you have a wonderful day. Ciao.

Don't you see how creation is a miracle and goes against the natural processes you are suggesting? Therefore we cannot possibly know what the created world looked like since we have nothing to go by except the actual world we live in. Who's to say the world we live in wasn't created this way, not to deceive that an aging process took place, but what we interpret as an aging process is in fact the result of the miracle of creation. IOW, we are interpreting the natural data incorrectly.

Did you listen to the Mohler video? What did you think of his theological reasons for reading Gen 1 in a more literal fashion?

Did you read this post? What did you think of his point about the process of scientific examination and if it can properly be applied to the universe?

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...5&postcount=94

BTW, your exasperation with me is trying my patience.

[pastor febus]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

It seems everywhere you go on this forum the integrity of scripture is ridiculed. Whats happening here? I wonder how many or few actually believe the Bible is the supernatural word of the true God?

Mizpeh got it right from the beginning. If I cant believe in a God that can make the Galaxies with a word how on Earth can I trust he will raise people that have been dead for thousands of years?

That will probably be the next damnable heresy to be revived. Will there REALLY be a resurrection of the dead? It probably wont be long. No wonder so many are falling away from Christ!

If scripture is merely a collection of fables any man would certainly be a fool to put any faith in it. So satans main job is to ridicule, question, and trash it.

This forum is turning into a stronghold of such activity.

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Brother,
Dont freak out on us. People are just trying to get things sorted out. The word of God is not being trashed here. What is being investigated here is the unbiblical perceptions we have had due to poor teaching methods. The bible was written in another language and culture. If we were not concerned with that our preachers would not own a Strongs or Vines concordances.
Our historic perception has lead us to some strange conclusions that demand reexamination. Tradition is not necessarily truth. Those who desire truth are compelled to take another look at what they have recieved.
There are so many questions that people have and cannot find them at the local church. This is because many teachers are unqualified to instruct. There is more misinformation that is deemed "good doctrine" than I want to know of. Freedom of expression and dialogue of any substance is not encouraged in the local churches and it has created an unhealthy situation for all. This is a good place to air these inquiries.
God bless

[pastor febus]

Originally Posted by jfrog

DaveC519,

I will believe the evidence that God has given us. The evidence he has given us regarding the age of the earth is vast. He has given us radioactive dating methods that show the earth is much much older than 10000 years. He has given us fossils of extinct creatures that never seem to appear in rocks that are dated young. He has given us the knowledge that light travels at 3.00 * 10^8 m/s. He has given us the knowledge about the sizes and brightnesses of stars. We can see by their apparent sizes and brightnesses that they are so far away that the light from them could not have traveled here in 10000 years.

You see, all the evidence points to an earth much older than 10000 years. If God made the earth only 10000 years ago then he went to great lengths to make it appear much much older. I can only think that if he went to such great lengths to make the earth appear old that an old earth is what he wants me to believe in.

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You are correct. Christians have struggled with the age of the earth because
their world view is influenced by a universal interpetation of holy writ. The discussion here is very good. The age of the earth leads us to more questions. If the earth is indeed over 6,000 yrs old, we may ask the question,was God telling us of the creation of the universe or was He recounting the creation of covenant man?
Good science always supports the Word because it is measurable and observable. Bad science such as evolution is not so.
Our view of the first three chapters of Genesis sets the pattern for two world views. One is universal the other is covenantal or regional. We make that decision from the offset of our study of the bible.
The problem we have is not what the bible says but what