The Apostolic Welfare Culture

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Kutless

Whatever right back atcha! My examples although extreme are very real to me. IN fact my former pastor was very displeased with me for staying home with my sick daughter so that my wife could geet some rest as she was up the night before. You know the pastor that has "treated you well"???????

Lording over people is not the job of a pastor.

That guy sounds like a whack-job.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

If someone wants to be used and isn't, it IS A LEADERSHIP FAILURE.

I agree with everything you said though.

I think it is a leadership failure. There are some people that are willing and need to be developed. It takes time. It's almost like a business. You have to work with it to get it to run properly.

Some people don't handle leadership well. They can't delegate. They want all the control. It makes life easier when you delegate and stay communicated. That is the key.

I think sometimes teachers can get burnt out and all they need is a little meeting to throw ideas around and just talk. It brings a lot of cohesiveness when this is done. If the pastor is doing all the talking at the meeting, it's not as valuable a session, IMO. All members need to feel as though they are working "together" and not "for someone" if you know what I'm saying.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

That guy sounds like a whack-job.

You critisizing Pastors PP? Do you have an issue with leadership?

Just curious, Rhoni

[Ron]

True Ministry is a "Team Effort!"

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

CS,

Even in the workplace it is give and take. You want people to work for you, over time and extra then you make the conditions right for it to happen.

You can't continually beat up saints, discipline them till they can't stand, and the ask them to do such things over and above...
Saints, like Pastors, need affirmation that what they are doing makes a difference and is appreciated.

Is it too difficult to expect mutual appreciation, mutual affirmation? Then it becomes a happy and pleasant thing to sacrifice. We all really want to anyway...

Rhoni, you have a unique ability to bash pastors at every opportunity. Do you realize this? This is what I was referring to earlier. Again, this thread is not about preachers. It is about lazy Apostolics.

Care to comment on that?

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Eliseus

The idea of there being some kind of "Tension" or conflict between "God, church, family" is unbiblical. There is nothing in the Scripture that identifies Christians (converted people, saints) having to deal with this supposed "tension" that modern Christians seem to be dealing with. I can't recall any verses which indicate there was a "problem" in this area among the early Christians. I don't recall there being an "issue" with "juggling God, church, and family responsibilities" in the Bible.

I wonder why?

Perhaps we don't have the religion they had in the Bible...

POTD!!!!!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Ron

True Ministry is a "Team Effort!"

Amen!

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Rhoni, you have a unique ability to bash pastors at every opportunity. Do you realize this? This is what I was referring to earlier. Again, this thread is not about preachers. It is about lazy Apostolics.

Care to comment on that?

Of course any threads started about the "Pastors" are brought to a screaching halt!!

Can the pastor take any blame for these things?

Originally Posted by Kutless

Like ya Chan.. enjoy your posts, but in most situations I will never put the church before my family.

I am heavily involved in outreach, Sun school, etc etc but my family and the running of my home comes before that.

Then you really don't know what the Church is if you think it's outreach, Sunday School, etc. The CHURCH is the body of Christ. WE are Jesus' arms, legs, intestines, etc. and Jesus is the Head. If you are putting your family before THAT, you love your family more than you love Jesus (since you're putting your family before your place in the body of Christ) and, according to Jesus, are not worthy of Him. Even JESUS put His ministry before His earthly family. When His mother and siblings came to talk to Him one time and someone in the crowd told Him, what did He say? He said (paraphrase) "Who is my mother and who are my brothers? They who do the will of God are my mother and sister and brother." Peter was running all over Israel with Jesus instead of being at home with his family.

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by Chan

Then you really don't know what the Church is if you think it's outreach, Sunday School, etc. The CHURCH is the body of Christ. WE are Jesus' arms, legs, intestines, etc. and Jesus is the Head. If you are putting your family before THAT, you love your family more than you love Jesus (since you're putting your family before your place in the body of Christ) and, according to Jesus, are not worthy of Him. Even JESUS put His ministry before His earthly family. When His mother and siblings came to talk to Him one time and someone in the crowd told Him, what did He say? He said (paraphrase) "Who is my mother and who are my brothers? They who do the will of God are my mother and sister and brother." Peter was running all over Israel with Jesus instead of being at home with his family.

You go boy!!!