If you had the floor for 10 minutes what would you say/ask?????

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Old Paths

1990....


2000 preachers left the UPCI....


Nope I still don't remember it???

Between 1990-2007.

Would you stop saying I stated they left in 1990.

Please read................

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by rrford

I have spoken with several officials about it over the years and NOT ONE time did any of them try and downplay the number that I remember. Most of these guys realize the numbers do ont lie. (Unless you have the wrong numbers.)

Perhaps not to you personally RR ..... but numbers and names weren't made public always. I know because we were watching fairly closely at the time we left.

[rrford]

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

Between 1990-2007.

Would you stop saying I stated they left in 1990.

Please read................

Can you substantiate even that 2000 have left since then? That is all we are asking for.

[rrford]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Perhaps not to you personally RR ..... but numbers and names weren't made public always. I know because we were watching fairly closely at the time we left.

The numbers are actually public in more than one way.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by rrford

Care to explain how it is that an increase in licensed ministers equates to 1.3% leaving? Or how you came up with the 1.3% number as those who are leaving? Is that just an assumption?

Here is my original post.

__________________________________________________ ____________________

If some 2000 ministers who left the UPCI "SINCE 1990" can't get things changed.

How on earth could I have a voice and solution anyone would give a glance at?

Changing things today would by like nailing things to a door in the 1500..

Where did that get Martin Luther.


__________________________________________________ _______________________

Just because you have increase in ministers coming into an organization does not mean that a certain number did not turn over.

If you can't prove my numbers of 1.3% then answer my question.

IF the men that did leave left because they would not be heard?

How could you expect my solutions to be heard.

[Nahum]

I think I understand what Neckstadt is TRYING to say.

There have been many who have left over the past two decades. I don't have any actuals, though , given time, I'm sure I could rustle those stats up.This is somewhat normal in any organization. Truth be told, our numbers are quite sluggish.

While the AOG and other Pentecostal orgs continue to have incredible growth, we are stumbling.

[Old Paths]

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

Ok. I will hold to the 2000 that left. I wish we could run a stat on your 1990 manual and your 2007 manual.
You and I both know it is a large number.

My point which you do not want to address.

Is you always ask the person posting to give a solution.

I am not a person who has any bitterness towards the UPCI.

I have family liscensed in the organization.

My point being if good men could have their voice heard, why would I think my voice could be heard?

Nathan Eckstadt

This is why I thought you said 1990.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I think I understand what Neckstadt is TRYING to say.

There have been many who have left over the past two decades. I don't have any actuals, though , given time, I'm sure I could rustle those stats up.This is somewhat normal in any organization. Truth be told, our numbers are quite sluggish.

While the AOG and other Pentecostal orgs continue to have incredible growth, we are stumbling.

Really, who cares about the numbers, they could be embellished by both parties to fit their particular needs/agendas.

What is the issue? What are we trying to prove here, beyond a discussion about whether the numbers are significant?

Good golly, go read the Title and the first post in this thread!

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Felicity

There was a significant number who left - yes - but people have wanted to downplay it for obvious reasons.

"2000" does seem much higher than any figures I've heard before.

It equates to 117 out of 9000 per year since 1990. 1.3% that does not seem like a large number.

[Nahum]

BTW, the manual doesn't list ministers (other than national officials).

The directory does.