Canadian and American Healthcare ?

[BrotherEastman]

We wouldn't have to worry about healthcare in America if we voted for Michael Savage.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

The role of the Federal government should be limited. In American it was originally that way. It is becoming socialistic and at times almost communistic.

The government is to carry out the 'wishes' and rules of the constitution....not the whims of the people.

Healthcare is not an entitlement. Not a 'right' and it is not the federal governments' job to provide it.

Ummmm....I have serious disagreement with this notion. First...we need to understand something that supersedes the Constitution:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --" - The Declaration of Independence

It is a fundamental Christian principle that our rights are unalienable rights given to us...by God...not the Constitution. Among these God given rights is the right to "Life". This has awesome moral implications. In America this year an estimated 18,000 Americans will die because they couldn't afford health insurance or were denied coverage for a health care procedure they couldn't afford. Why? What was their crime? Their only crime was being poor and becoming sick. Somewhere along the way we Americans have been brain washed by the corporate health care establishment that we don't have an unalienable right to life given to us by our creator. Because if we woke up one day and understood this we would demand that the Government instituted among us, deriving it's just powers from us, would secure this right for ALL Americans regardless of their ability to pay.

The American Health Care System is a glaring abomination against God. Please understand, the Canadian system isn't perfect I know...but it's better than what we have here in the US. Many of us fail to understand that health care is rationed in the US. Yes...it is rationed between those who can pay and those who cannot pay. You better be able to pay because these companies will watch you lay their and die if you cannot. Because to them if they cannot profit from you're sickness...you're just flat out of luck. In the coming year another estimated 18,000 Americans will be denied their unalienable right to life because of corporate greed and the profit driven American health care system.

The American system would bill you for the very air in your lungs...it does bill some for the very air in their lungs already. Consider how nearly 25,000 Americans have filed bankruptcy because they couldn't pay the medical bills they acquired in their efforts to merely have the right to stay alive. Oh...those unpaid bills will be paid by the way. The loss will be passed down to the rest of us who are insured in the form of higher premiums. And guess what...more folks won't be able to afford health insurance. That's why the number of the uninsured has gone up to nearly 50 million already. This system is broken and we need to trash it and do what every other Westernized nation has done...institute a national health insurance program.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by TrueNorth

As a Canadian I pay for my healthcare through my taxes.
I also am of the opinion that the life of a poor person is of the same value as that of an upper middle class white person.

Amen. That view is enshrined in the Declaration of Independence. All men are created equal and have been granted by their creator with certain unalienable rights. You're more "American" in your belief than the those free market Americans who support the profit driven health care system in our United States.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

You certainly do pay! That's a case of government overstepping it's bounds.

The Canadian government didn't force this on the people. The Canadian people democratically supported the system, therefore the Government was responding to the will of the people...not overstepping it's bounds.

And yes...they pay. They pay an estimated $108 a month for their health insurance. Guess what...most Americans who have a UHC traditional family plan will pay an estimated $260 a month for the private plan. Which is economically more conservative and cost effective? The rates are lower in single payer systems thus allowing individuals and businesses to invest more money, businesses can offer more raises and even hire more employees. The system has proven to stimulate the economy in study after study in Canada, France, and Britain. The estimated cost of shifting this into the public sector would raise the cost of health care (as it we're currently seeing in the United States), reduce investment, leave more citizens with less money to put back into the economy. Also businesses would have to lay off workers and offer fewer raises to pay for the private system (something else we see in the US.). The privatized system is an abysmal failure.

Value of Life? No problem with that but I find it also immoral for government to steal from one to give to another.

Remember that in God's Law all land owners were required to leave the edges and corners of their fields for the needy, strangers, orphans, and widows. Was God stealing from the land owner? Were the magistrates stealing from the land owners when they held them to the Law? Remember that in Isaiah and in Amos God promised to destroy the nation of Israel because they neglected social justice to the poor and needy among them.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by TrueNorth

Our government is clearly mandated to provide healthcare and a social network because we are a caring society.
I do find it interesting that Americans (even Christians) have such a problem with caring for the less fortunate in their society.

American Christianity has been hijacked by corporate interests. Pray for our nation!

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

Can you explain to me what is socialism(in health care) and how it differs from your system?

I've never condoned suffering. I think it immoral to take from one by government force and give to another. As Christians we should voluntarily be doing this. The church has stopped almost all charity and given it to the government who has become our savior.

If you're serious I know a family that needs nearly $150,000 for cancer treatments they cannot afford. Please PM me and I'll email their address to you and tell you who to make the check out to.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

I agree. This is not to say that there are possibilities for sin in a capitalistic system. As long as there is fallen man there will be abuse. But the Biblical pattern of private property and ownership, capitalism, and proper taxation is still found in Scripture and government funding of health care isn't.

The CEO of UHC got 1.6 BILLION dollars in stock options. Mean while an estimated 18,000 Americans died because they couldn't afford coverage...and that was only 2006.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by CC1

If I ever desired to be part of a Socialist healthcare system Canada would be one of the better ones.

However I don't think that day is ever going to come. Oh, I think the day will come when the Dems have their way and we will have socialized medicene, I just don't think the day will come when I desire that.

Canada has a much more homogenized populous and economy than the USA. They don't have as many lazy worthless ghetto bums for the government to take their hard earned dollars to pay for their six or seven illigetimate children,etc.

We already have socialized medicine. The US armed forces receive top notch government health care. So do prisoners. It's hard working Americans who sustain this country that are denied coverage and 18,000 of us die a year of treatable conditions because they cannot afford health insurance. Health Care Coverage in their case was rationed to those who could afford it.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

There are no studies that have shown conclusively that second hand smoking causes cancer.

That's right bro...smoking is only bad for the smoker...the smoke doesn't harm anyone else. Riiiight? If you smoke you'll see how bold I am. Waiting near the bar of a restaurant and asked that those smoking put out their cigarettes until my family got seated. They didn't take me seriously...until I stood up and raised my voice and told them I had a 9 month old child in my party and I was only going to ask them one more time.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

Scripture sets forth the principles of a limited government and is against the taking of something that doesn't belong to it through taxation.

When I am forced to pay for health insurance for someone else that is theft. BTW, I'm sure they are having to pay for abortions also.

If you're paying taxes for a universal health insurance program you're paying for a system that insures all Americans, including you. Do you believe that you shouldn't pay taxes to support police and fire just because you've never needed to call them?