More over-reacting to the "Light Doctrine"

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

The canonization of scripture, as in the Holy Bible, was not settled until after Nicaea.

What?

Have you ever heard of the Antilegomena?

Please, don't look it up and then answer me, just answer yes or no.

[houston]

Originally Posted by houston

The general consensus is that the people were divided over the cult of personality. That is what it looks like per the text. Some preferred Apollos, some Cephas, some Paul.
IMO, it is possible that it was an ethnic divide.

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

But the Bible is clearly talking about the ways these men baptized these new Christians.

One cannot read this section of scripture and do away with what is being said about the different faithful men and the differences in their baptisms.

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

The Apostle Paul addresses water baptism specifically.

Originally Posted by houston

Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
—————
To make his point, that there are no divisions in the body. The Corinthians were not to prefer one Apostle or teacher over the other.

......

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

If Acts 2:38 means EXACTLY what Apostolics says it means, then Apostolics are the only people who are saved and will inherit eternal life.

But there's even more ways to make the eye of the needle even tighter-- ENSURING all of the mansions Christ is preparing for us will be occupied by "us four and no more" for all of eternity!

Is in the "Name of Jesus" alright?

Some say in the "Name of Jesus Christ"-- this must be the more excellent way...

Some say in the, "Name of the Lord Jesus Christ"-- could this be the MOST excellent way?

Acts 2:38 doesn't literally use the Name or word, "Lord". Uh-oh...

We need to make sure we get it right-- it's not God's fault if you go to hell because you were baptized in the, "Name of the Lord Jesus Christ." Your baptizer should not have added to the Bible!

Next time, tell him to do it right!

You are kidding right?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I'm not UPC, but mark my words. The United Pentecostal Church will be here way after we are all in the ground as worm food.



Before I comment on the above, could you explain a the above quote with more detail?

There are self identified Christians that live a more godly and sacrificial life centered around the gospel than many oneness apostolic believers. They do so without the Holy Ghost and without even being properly baptized. It doesn't take a wise man to ask how can these things be so.

The moment you claim such people are damned is the moment you open yourself up to that question. How can these things be so? That question doesn't have a pretty answer. I'll leave it at that for now unless you want even more elaboration.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

If Acts 2:38 means EXACTLY what Apostolics says it means, then Apostolics are the only people who are saved and will inherit eternal life.

Please, I mean no offense to you, yet I want to use this quote to show something. Again, no offense is intended. Acts 2:38 means that we must baptize in the name of Jesus Christ, Lord Jesus Christ, you aren't adding.
But, when other religions (like Islam) see the above quote they shake their heads. When a Sedevacantist hears someone utter the above, when they are "supposed" to believe the above, they not only shake their heads, they wonder why you aren't a Sedevacantist. Listen, Jesus said the way was extremely hard to navigate, meaning strait. Jesus said that, not Nathaniel Urshan, not the PAJC, or the merger brethren in 1945. Jesus Christ stated that the way was hard to navigate and the opening wasn't only small and tight to get through. But it was hard to find. Listen, 2+2 is 4, all day long, all night long, 365 days a year. You wouldn't hesitate to correct someone who you gave 100 dollars for a 60 dollar purchase when they only gave you 20 dollars as change. Why? Because you would be correct, no matter how many employees of the company came to dispute your grievance concerning the 20 dollars. You would stand firm and continue to demand the rest of your change.

Yet, when it comes to this we blow out, and use our faulty emotional reasoning. We become nicer than Jesus, and more righteous than God. Who are we kidding? This is eternal life man, this isn't some forum banter. Jesus' teachings were exclusive, and far from inclusive. You can believe what you want when you are behind the wheel of a Maserati. You have the capability to reach 188 mph. Yet, you will be breaking the law in the United States if you are flying that fast. The police officer will pull you over, and when he does you can tell him that the car can do 188 in top gear. But he will still tow your car, and cuff you, then cart you off to jail.

Our entire world works that way, even when we bend the rules it usually comes around to bite us.

The Word of God is gun barrel straight, and if it rubs us the wrong way, then we need to turn around and let it rub us the right way.

When you close your eyes forever, game over. Debating is done, all bets are off, and chips are cashed in. It is like walking off a 50 ft scaffold, no matter how you try, you will not make it back to the plank. The scripture calls us to make our calling an election sure, I don't know about any one else reading this post. But I know this, I gonna make sure that I'm praying, pushing back a plate, studying that word, and bouncing my thoughts off of elders I trust with my life. Because if I slack, it will be my fault. Not your's, not my brother's not my sister's. It will be my own. There is only ONE WAY to God.

No amount of debate is going to make that go away.

No amount. You can hide under your covers or whistle pass the graveyard. But the fact is this, we will die someday, some sooner than others. My whole purpose in my life, beside me preaching and teaching. Is to get myself ready for my death bed. I might never get there, I had a jack twist and break in half, and the Lincoln Town Car fell right on top of me. I don't know how but I pulled myself out. I would of been deader than fried chicken. Then posting with some nutcase over Jesus NOT being God, but having His own god would not mean a thing. I would be gone, but I can't stress this enough, there is ONLY ONE way, if we don't accept that. then too bad so sad.

Logic wins the day on that one.

Two wrongs will never make a right.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by jfrog

There are self identified Christians that live a more godly and sacrificial life centered around the gospel than many oneness apostolic believers.

Sorry, but you would have to prove that you know every single Oneness Pentecostal. Forgive me, but truth about any group or groups cannot be measured through our limited experience. You may have dealt with a bunch of lousy Apostolics, another person may of dealt with a 50 50 mixed bag of good and bad. I dealt with some awesomely godly, honorable brothers and sisters who never disappointed me. Plus I have dealt with people who I thought were the devil with clothes on. Still personal experiences of who is nice, who is naughty, and who is Jesus' duplicate on earth, doesn't prove or negate Bible truth.

Originally Posted by jfrog

T
They do so without the Holy Ghost and without even being properly baptized. It doesn't take a wise man to ask how can these things be so.

But, the same can be said of other religions from Islam to Mormonism.
My father was an atheist he was my best friend, the best man at my wedding was an atheist. Who had no problem taking part in an Apostolic wedding. Again, whether Gandhi mopped your floors and Mother Teresa washed your windows, doesn't negate Truth.

Originally Posted by jfrog

T
The moment you claim such people are damned is the moment you open yourself up to that question. How can these things be so? That question doesn't have a pretty answer. I'll leave it at that for now unless you want even more elaboration.

How can what be so? Jesus didn't appear to JUDEANS and ISRAELITES to make them Kathryn Kuhlman, or Swami Vivekananda. Jesus brings eternal life for those who were supposed to have none. Narrow way, small gate, leads to eternal life. Not to Bob Ross' easel.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by houston

The general consensus is that the people were divided over the cult of personality. That is what it looks like per the text. Some preferred Apollos, some Cephas, some Paul.
IMO, it is possible that it was an ethnic divide.

[derAlte]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The Word of God is gun barrel straight, and if it rubs us the wrong way, then we need to turn around and let it rub us the right way.

When you close your eyes forever, game over. Debating is done, all bets are off, and chips are cashed in. It is like walking off a 50 ft scaffold, no matter how you try, you will not make it back to the plank. The scripture calls us to make our calling an election sure, I don't know about any one else reading this post. But I know this, I gonna make sure that I'm praying, pushing back a plate, studying that word, and bouncing my thoughts off of elders I trust with my life. Because if I slack, it will be my fault. Not yours, not my brother's not my sister's. It will be my own. There is only ONE WAY to God.

No amount of debate is going to make that go away.

No amount. You can hide under your covers or whistle pass the graveyard. But the fact is this, we will die someday, some sooner than others. My whole purpose in my life, beside me preaching and teaching is to get myself ready for my death bed. I might never get there, I had a jack twist and break in half, and the Lincoln Town Car fell right on top of me. I don't know how but I pulled myself out. I would of been deader than fried chicken. Then posting with some nutcase over Jesus NOT being God, but having His own god would not mean a thing. I would be gone, but I can't stress this enough, there is ONLY ONE way, if we don't accept that. then too bad so sad.

Well said, Sir!

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sorry, but you would have to prove that you know every single Oneness Pentecostal. Forgive me, but truth about any group or groups cannot be measured through our limited experience. You may have dealt with a bunch of lousy Apostolics, another person may of dealt with a 50 50 mixed bag of good and bad. I dealt with some awesomely godly, honorable brothers and sisters who never disappointed me. Plus I have dealt with people who I thought were the devil with clothes on. Still personal experiences of who is nice, who is naughty, and who is Jesus' duplicate on earth, doesn't prove or negate Bible truth.

Sure, but this still doesn't answer the question of how it can be that the Baptist down the street without the holy ghost, without the truth and without even having his sins washed away in Jesus' name baptism can live a more godly life than those in your own church that you would call saved.

But, the same can be said of other religions from Islam to Mormonism.
My father was an atheist he was my best friend, the best man at my wedding was an atheist. Who had no problem taking part in an Apostolic wedding. Again, whether Gandhi mopped your floors and Mother Teresa washed your windows, doesn't negate Truth.

No, the same CANNOT be said of other religions. Islam doesn't even express faith in Jesus and that he died and was resurrected for our sins. That's a major difference.

Most importantly, how can the guy that believes 99% of what you believe except claims to believe in the Trinity and also believes that salvation occurs and faith and has never spoken in tongues or had his sins washed away in Jesus name.... how can you call that guy damned when there's a 1% difference in what you and him believe and he is living a more godly life than many you would call saved?

If he's not doing that by the power of God then all your Holy Ghost power basically amounts to nothing. How can that be so?

If he's wrong about that little what things could you be wrong about that might keep you out of heaven? Why does doctrinal truth only become salvational for those topics and not for others?

How can what be so? Jesus didn't appear to JUDEANS and ISRAELITES to make them Kathryn Kuhlman, or Swami Vivekananda. Jesus brings eternal life for those who were supposed to have none. Narrow way, small gate, leads to eternal life. Not to Bob Ross' easel.

You should be able to figure out why this question is soo important by now and why holding on to the position of claiming others are damned simply because of some relatively minor doctrinal differences doesn't end in a good place no matter no matter how you try to frame it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Sure, but this still doesn't answer the question of how it can be that the Baptist down the street without the holy ghost, without the truth and without even having his sins washed away in Jesus' name baptism can live a more godly life than those in your own church that you would call saved.

No, the same CANNOT be said of other religions. Islam doesn't even express faith in Jesus and that he died and was resurrected for our sins. That's a major difference.

These are hypotheticals which you would have a lifetime to accumulate the evidence. Yet, you still wouldn't prove Jesus, and His disciples wrong. Concerning they were right and everyone else who didn't accept their message was going to hell. Let's face it, the message in that Bible I didn't write it. You didn't write it, and all your's and my wishful thinking isn't going to flip flop around Jesus' statement concerning a narrow path leading to an almost closed entrance, which a small few would even be able to find. You know what? We are like two guys stuck on a burning crashing jet liner arguing over which seat we want to sit in. Jesus is the one who made this exclusive to the very few. Not me, and I can only assume you like Thomas Jefferson cut out the parts you don't like? Sorry for the levity, but seriously, just because the Baptist down the street from you smiles 75% more than Johnny James doesn't prove anything. Listen, Jesus didn't die on a cross to make you a Stepford Wife.

Originally Posted by jfrog

Most importantly, how can the guy that believes 99% of what you believe except claims to believe in the Trinity and also believes that salvation occurs and faith and has never spoken in tongues or had his sins washed away in Jesus name.... how can you call that guy damned when there's a 1% difference in what you and him believe and he is living a more godly life than many you would call saved?

JF, this isn't about what I believe. This is about Jesus Christ making statement that PROVE exclusiveness of His teachings. Hey, we might be roasting hot together. But I'll tell you one I sure going to do my best to get my good stuff together. To make sure that I know what HE wants not what the First Church of NPR wants. The Bible over and over again talks about penalties concerning adding and taking away from God's word. Revelation 22:18-19 yanks the plug hard. Well, I didn't write, So what do you want from me? I know you didn't write it, so I need to make sure to adhere to what is written. Not going back and forth waxing philosophical with someone while my life on the earth gets shorter on the daily.

Originally Posted by jfrog

If he's not doing that by the power of God then all your Holy Ghost power basically amounts to nothing. How can that be so?

If he's wrong about that little what things could you be wrong about that might keep you out of heaven? Why does doctrinal truth only become salvational for those topics and not for others?

If he is wrong he isn't wrong because he didn't follow me. The scripture says the Spirit of truth will guide you into all truth. Tell you what, when you die and stand in judgement ask Jesus the question. It will be a bit too late, and the answer probably won't matter anymore. But at least you have your answer.

Originally Posted by jfrog

You should be able to figure out why this question is soo important by now and why holding on to the position of claiming others are damned simply because of some relatively minor doctrinal differences doesn't end in a good place no matter no matter how you try to frame it.

Alright, show us the verses. Where does the Bible grant gray areas? Also you balked on Islam and Hindus having some godly people. But what about Roman Catholics who are godly, Mormons, wait, MORMONS who are super duper nice folks. Please spoon feed.