Hillary nearly collapses at Sep. 11th ceremony

[Esaias]

The workings of the subversive mind are fascinating. Just like those who claim gay marriage is, indeed, Biblical.

Whodathunkit? Communism is Constitutional!

Which is why it will eventually come down to what it historically has always come down to - force of arms. "Political power comes out of the barrel of a gun" - Chairman Mao.

And then the cycle repeats.

Again.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Hamilton was a snake. I'm a history major and know what I'm talking about. Hamilton only started making such statements when he was trying to ram through his economic agenda. Funny thing is, he laughed at those who were pushing for a Bill of Rights...

Later, he argued that unless the Constitution specifically barred the Federal Government from a specific action, they were free to do it.

Sorry, but I think you'd better go with the words of Jefferson and Madison.

You've only presented an "opinion" of Hamilton. However, his interpretation of the Constitution has been embraced be the entire nation. Historically speaking, the Hamiltonian understanding has won. Even the majority conservative SCOTUS employed it when it ruled on favor of the ACA.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The workings of the subversive mind are fascinating. Just like those who claim gay marriage is, indeed, Biblical.

Whodathunkit? Communism is Constitutional!

Which is why it will eventually come down to what it historically has always come down to - force of arms. "Political power comes out of the barrel of a gun" - Chairman Mao.

And then the cycle repeats.

Again.

Do you even know what Communism is? Nothing involved in a single payer system is "Communist".

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You've only presented an "opinion" of Hamilton. However, his interpretation of the Constitution has been embraced be the entire nation. Historically speaking, the Hamiltonian understanding has won. Even the majority conservative SCOTUS employed it when it ruled on favor of the ACA.

I have showed you Hamilton's very words. He completely flip flopped his view of the Constitution to push through an agenda he wanted, just as you are doing now. And I agree that what he lost at the Constitutional Convention his philosophical heirs have won on the battlefields of 1861-65, and later through politically and ideologically motivated SCOTUS decisions in the 20th Century, but that does not make him or you right.

The Catholic understanding of Christianity also "won" for over a thousand years. But then Luther happened. This fight is not over, and the enemies of freedom will not prevail. Of course the coming conflict can be avoided if people like you would simply respect the rights of others. But you won't.

BTW, the majority of the people disagreed with the SCOTUS take on ACA.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I have showed you Hamilton's very words. He completely flip flopped his view of the Constitution to push through an agenda he wanted, just as you are doing now. And I agree that what he lost at the Constitutional Convention his philosophical heirs have won on the battlefields of 1861-65, and later through politically and ideologically motivated SCOTUS decisions in the 20th Century, but that does not make him or you right.

It doesn't make us "wrong" either. My point is, it is clearly a matter of interpretation.

The Catholic understanding of Christianity also "won" for over a thousand years. But then Luther happened.

Yes.

This fight is not over, and the enemies of freedom will not prevail.

Freedom. You mean, like, the right to live? They say that health care is rationed in other countries. What they don't tell you is that in the United States an average of 45,000 Americans were dying each year from treatable or preventable conditions. Why? They couldn't pay for physicals or treatments with cold hard cash. Your version of "freedom" is obviously too expensive for those poor souls who have died under it. My mother was one of them in 2007. So, from my perspective, your version of freedom is a threat to nearly 50,000 thousand Americans every year. Of course, you throw them on charity's door step to soothe the conscience. But the fact remains, these are real people with real lives. And they've perished in the night, their only sin? Being unable to afford health insurance.

Tell me, why fight tooth and nail for the unborn... if you don't care if they suffer and die later if they are too poor to afford insurance? Why not just look at all the people desperate for coverage as the children of those who chose life? And then value them with as much value you attached to them before they were born.

Of course the coming conflict can be avoided if people like you would simply respect the rights of others. But you won't.

There isn't going to be any coming conflict. The world is constantly advancing. It is 2016. In what might seem to be a mere blink of an eye it will be 2020. We are not going back to the days of the frontier and the Wild West. Oh, I'm sure there will be a few wiley-eyed crazies who are stock piling weapons right now who will go nuts and launch some kind of sad hiccup of resistance that the majority of the nation will shake their heads at. I hope they are dealt with peacefully, talked down, and given the mental health services they need. But it will only seem like a "conflict" to those who determined to go down in a blaze of glory because they can't adapt to a changing world. To those who have to deal with such unbalanced people, it will be a sad day wherein they had to due their duty to eliminate an obvious threat to human life. And it will probably take place in a massive compound or small network of compounds out West. It will be news at 11. America will be sad. And time will march on.

The only caveat will be if Jesus returns! Now that will be awesome! Then we all can set down these crazy disagreements and move on together under our Lord and King.

BTW, the majority of the people disagreed with the SCOTUS take on ACA.

I know. But the Supreme Court is the Supreme Court. The decision has been made. They can disagree all day long. But the law is the law.

I have an interesting question that popped into my mind. Has the SCOTUS ever granted a civil liberty and then taken it away?

I'm going to have to do some reading. I'm not sure if I've approached anything I've read with that question in mind.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Do you even know what Communism is? Nothing involved in a single payer system is "Communist".

I know exactly what communism is. Apparently you do not.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

There isn't going to be any coming conflict. The world is constantly advancing. It is 2016. In what might seem to be a mere blink of an eye it will be 2020. We are not going back to the days of the frontier and the Wild West. Oh, I'm sure there will be a few wiley-eyed crazies who are stock piling weapons right now who will go nuts and launch some kind of sad hiccup of resistance that the majority of the nation will shake their heads at. I hope they are dealt with peacefully, talked down, and given the mental health services they need. But it will only seem like a "conflict" to those who determined to go down in a blaze of glory because they can't adapt to a changing world. To those who have to deal with such unbalanced people, it will be a sad day wherein they had to due their duty to eliminate an obvious threat to human life. And it will probably take place in a massive compound or small network of compounds out West. It will be news at 11. America will be sad. And time will march on.

.

Sat Cong.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I know exactly what communism is. Apparently you do not.

There is a distinct difference between concepts rooted in Democratic Socialism and concepts rooted in Communism. Most of Europe is Democratic Socialist in philosophy. It should also be noted that according to Forbes magazine the top 10 countries American corporations are finding it best to do business in are:

Denmark
New Zealand
Norway
Ireland
Sweden
Finland
Canada
Singapore
Netherlands
United Kingdom

What do these nations have in common? They are Democratic Socialist nations.

What I find interesting is, there are nations wherein the economies are far more "libertarian" or "free market" than these 10 nations. Yet corporations aren't going to them! Why? It's far too expensive and labor intensive. One company in my home town moved to Toronto Canada. Why? The cost of insuring employees in the United States in our health care system is far more expensive than the extra taxation needed to pay into Canada's national health care system. By moving to Canada, they not only saved money, but they were able to wipe their hands clean of having to provide health insurance at all. This allows the company to focus strictly on... DOING BUSINESS and MAKING PROFIT.

If our socio-economic vision is so bad.... why are nations with our vision doing so good??? Why do corporations prefer them??? Why are profit margins higher for private businesses??? LOL

I've learned something interesting. Conservatives and the entire "free market" libertarian crowd have a theoretic ideology that sounds rather good on paper. However, it has proven time and time again to be an abysmal failure. And no advanced nation on earth has embraced this anarcho-capitalism they hold to. Our vision is not theoretic ideology. It's real world. It's applied, functioning as we speak, and embraced by the majority of first world nations that are marching into the future. My girlfriend lived in Europe for roughly 4 years. When coming back to the United States she was disheartened. She said that our cities look broken down and dirty. She's used to seeing state of the art technology and architecture just walking down the street. Here, she said it feels like we're stuck in the 80's and early 90's.

Easais, my dearest brother. This is the real world. America is falling behind in every category... and conservativism's answer seems to be a race to the bottom, not progressive and advanced vision for society as a whole. Once a conservative understands and embraces this reality, they make wonderfully balanced progressives. Honestly, we could use you.

As it relates to health care.... we're already paying more for it as a nation than we would a single payer system. However, historically we've gotten abysmal results for a Westernized nation of our caliber. America has always been able to do anything the rest of the world does... and be better, stronger, and faster than those nations. However, America's conservatism often causes us to lag behind the curve for a generation or two. We've seen this in relation to slavery, women's rights, etc. And it's the same with health care. We're poised to rapidly advance. But, as always, the conservative members of our society are wanting us to remain frozen in time.... while the world progresses and we fall even further behind.

My brother, I'd like to encourage you to step back and sincerely re-examine everything you believe politically. Study it out. Truly look at the facts without bias. I'm encouraged that you'll join us dreamers. I'm just asking that you at least give it some thought.

P.S.
Can you provide an example of a successful and advanced nation that has adopted the anarcho-capitalism espoused by modern conservatism and libertarianism?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Sat Cong.

No, truth.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I know. But the Supreme Court is the Supreme Court. The decision has been made. They can disagree all day long. But the law is the law.

The SCOTUS is not the final say in all matters. They are but ONE PART of our government system. And for the record, they violated the law in their ruling on the ACA. A tax cannot be ruled upon, until the first person is taxed. And yet, Roberts rewrote the law to define a fine as a tax, and then they ruled on the "tax", which was not legal for them to do so.

This government is completely corrupt and out of control.