Angels reproducing with humans possible?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

So, you cite Eerdmans Bible Dictionary as being the "sole" authority on the term?

No I didn't. No where did I say HE is the SOLE authority. I don't know why you would make such an accusation.

NET bible commentary
16 tn Grk "casting them into Tartarus" or "holding them captive in Tartarus." This verb, ταρταρόω (tartaroō), occurs only here in the NT, but its meaning is clearly established in both Hellenistic and Jewish literature. "Tartarus [was] thought of by the Greeks as a subterranean place lower than Hades where divine punishment was meted out, and so regarded in Israelite apocalyptic as well" (BDAG 991 s.v.). Grammatically, it has been translated as an indicative because it is an attendant circumstance participle.

Hell
Used as a translation of several biblical words: Hebrew sheol, Greek hadēs, geenna, and tartaroō = “confine to Tartarus,” 2 Pet. 2:4 only); the first two words describe the place where dead people go, the third refers to a place of punishment; thus “hell,” as used in various translations, encompasses a wide range of meanings; S. Hades, Gehenna, Sheol, Tartarus.


Karleen, P. S. (1987). The handbook to Bible study: With a guide to the Scofield study system (332). New York: Oxford University Press.

HELL[Gk géenna, tartaróō—‘hold captive in Tartarus’]. On Gk. géenna, see GEHENNA. In the NT Gk. tartaróō occurs only in 2 Pet. 2:4, where the angels who sinned were “cast … into hell” (cf. RSV mg and NAB). The verb tartaróō is derived from the noun Tartaros (cf. LXX Job 40:20; 41:24 [Eng. 32]; Prov. 30:16), which in Greek mythology was the locale below Hades where the Titans were imprisoned (Homer Il xiv.279; Josephus CAp ii.33 [240]). Homer also located it at the “undermost limits of earth and sea” (Il. viii.481). His description of it as murky (viii.13) apparently carried over to SibOr 4:186 and perhaps to 2 Pet. 2:4, since Peter described Tartarus as having “pits of nether gloom.”

Lee, G. A. (1979–1988). Hell. In G. W. Bromiley (Ed.), . Vol. 2: The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised (G. W. Bromiley, Ed.) (677). Wm. B. Eerdmans.

In 2 Pet. 2:4 only, we find the Verb tartaroō, translated in RSV ‘cast into hell’, and rendered by the Pesh. ‘cast down to the lower regions’. Tartaros is the classical word for the place of eternal punishment but is here applied to the intermediate sphere of punishment for fallen angels.

Innes, D. K. (1996). Hell. In D. R. W. Wood, I. H. Marshall, A. R. Millard, J. I. Packer & D. J. Wiseman (Eds.), New Bible dictionary (D. R. W. Wood, I. H. Marshall, A. R. Millard, J. I. Packer & D. J. Wiseman, Ed.) (3rd ed.) (464). Leicester, England; Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.

Tartarus was regarded by the ancient Greeks as that abiding place where rebellious gods and other wicked ones were punished. Its only NT use is in 2 Pet. 2:4 which says that the angels that sinned “were confined in Tartarus” and “kept unto judgment.”
Additional Descriptions of Suffering After final judgment, the lost experience continual and unimaginable suffering and torment. Such phrases as “weeping and gnashing of teeth” and “outer darkness” (Matt. 8:12; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30; 13:28) and “their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44, 46, 48 HCSB) indicate emotional and physical, as well as spiritual, suffering. Degrees of judgment and suffering are also indicated by such texts as Matt. 10:15; 11:22, 24; 18:6; Mark 6:11; Luke 10:12, 14.
Interpretations There are two broad questions to be answered which are vital to a proper understanding of the biblical teaching concerning hell. First, is the punishment of hell eternal or temporary? Second, does the Bible teach a literal or figurative hell?


Shackelford David G., & Clendenen, E. (2003). Hell. In C. Brand, C. Draper, A. England, S. Bond & T. C. Butler (Eds.), Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary (C. Brand, C. Draper, A. England, S. Bond & T. C. Butler, Ed.) (745). Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers.

ταρταρόω (Τάρταρος ‘the Netherworld’) 1 aor. ἐταρτάρωσα (Acusilaus Hist. [V B.C.]: 2 Fgm. 8 Jac. I p. 50; Lydus, Men. 4, 158 p. 174, 26 W.; cp. Sext. Emp., Pyrrh. Hypot. 3, 24, 210 ὁ Ζεὺς τὸν Κρόνον κατεταρτάρωσεν [this compound several times in Ps.—Apollod.: 1, 1, 4; 1, 2, 1, 2; 1, 2, 3]. Tartarus, thought of by the Greeks as a subterranean place lower than Hades where divine punishment was meted out, and so regarded in Israelite apocalyptic as well: Job 41:24; En 20:2; Philo, Exs. 152; Jos., C. Ap. 2, 240; SibOr 2, 302; 4, 186) hold captive in Tartarus 2 Pt 2:4.—DELG s.v. Τάρταρος. M-M.

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed.) (991). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.


1.25 ταρταρόω: (derivative of τάρταρος ‘Tartarus, hell,’ as a place of torture or torment, not occurring in the NT) to cast into or to cause to remain in Tartarus—‘to hold in Tartarus, to cast into hell.’ ἀλλὰ σειραῖς ζόφου ταρταρώσας ‘but held them in Tartarus by means of chains of darkness’ or ‘cast them into hell where they are kept chained in darkness’ 2 Pe 2:4. In many cases it is confusing to add still another term for a designation of hell by transliterating the Greek τάρταρος, and so most translators have preferred to render ταρταρόω as either ‘to cast into hell’ or ‘to keep in hell,’ thus using for ‘hell’ the same term as is employed for a rendering of the Greek term γέεννα (1.21).

Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Vol. 1: Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.) (6). New York: United Bible Societies.

The word tartarōsas (ταρταρωσας) is the Greek pagan name for the place of punishment of the evil. Strachan says: “In Homer, Hades is the place of confinement for dead men, and Tartarus is the name given to a murky abyss beneath Hades in which the sins of fallen immortals are punished. Hence II Peter uses this word in agreement with the Book of Enoch (where Tartarus is the place of punishment of fallen angels) and Greek mythology because he is speaking of fallen angels and not of men.”

Wuest, K. S. (1997). Wuest's word studies from the Greek New Testament: For the English reader (2 Pe 2:4). Grand Rapids: Eerdmans.

Tartarus The prison of the ancient Greek deities in Hesiod’s Theogony, a classical Greek story with conceptual parallels to Gen 6:1–4. Tartarus is a place of extreme torment

Barry, J. D., Heiser, M. S., Custis, M., Mangum, D., & Whitehead, M. M. (2012). Faithlife Study Bible (2 Pe 2:4). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

The verb is a ἅπαξ λεγ. τάρταρος occurs in three passages of LXX. (Job 40:15 (20), 41:22 (23), Prov. 24:51 (30:16): but in none of these is there any corresponding idea in the Hebrew. The word also occurs in Enoch xx. 2, where Gehenna is the place of punishment for apostate Jews, and Tartarus for the fallen angels. In Homer (e.g. Il. viii. 13) Hades is the place of confinement for dead men, and Tartarus is the name given to a murky abyss beneath Hades in which the sins of fallen Immortals (Kronos, Japetos, and the Titans) are punished (cf. Salmond, H.B.D. 2:344 a). Hence 2 Peter uses this word in agreement with the Book of Enoch and Greek mythology, because he is speaking of fallen angels and not of men. As regards the cosmology that is here implied, it has been suggested that the earth is not regarded as flat, but the universe is conceived as two concentric spheres, the outer heaven, the inner the earth. The nether half of heaven is Tartarus, and the nether half of the earth is Hades (St. Clair, Expositor, July, 1902). The use of the word by 2 Peter is remarkable as implying an atmosphere of Greek thought in the circle in which he moved, and for which he wrote. ζόφος in Homer is used of the gloom of the nether world, Od. xx. 356, cf. Heb. 12:18. Also v. 17 and Jude 6, 13. It is implied that fallen angels and unrighteous men alike undergo temporary punishment until the day of their final doom, cf. ver. 9. Enoch x. 4, 12, lxxxviii. 2.

Strachan, R. The Second Epistle General of Peter. In The Expositor's Greek Testament, Volume V: Commentary (134–135). New York: George H. Doran Company.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

So, you cite Eerdmans Bible Dictionary as being the "sole" authority on the term? What makes your source any more an authority than any other?

Job 26:6
Hell: Sheol - Hades or world of the dead.

Job 28:22
Destruction: abaddon - abstractly a perishing; concretely Hades
Death: maveth - death (natural or violent); concretely the dead, their place or state (hades)

Right...That's HADES not TARTARUS

You must have misunderstood me

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sean

Where?

Read what I posted so I don't have to repeat

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

The 10 spies misrepresented God's ability to deliver the land to Israel. They lied and put fear in the people causing them to murmur against Moses and Aaron.

They did not LIE about there being Giants in the land

They did not lie. They lacked faith

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

They did not LIE about there being Giants in the land

They did not lie. They lacked faith

10 came back and misrepresented - defamed - what they saw and believed. That is a lie whether it's a lack of faith or not.

If you tell me God is not able, you are a liar.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No I didn't. No where did I say HE is the SOLE authority. I don't know why you would make such an accusation.

NET bible commentary
16 tn Grk "casting them into Tartarus" or "holding them captive in Tartarus." This verb, ταρταρόω (tartaroō), occurs only here in the NT, but its meaning is clearly established in both Hellenistic and Jewish literature. "Tartarus [was] thought of by the Greeks as a subterranean place lower than Hades where divine punishment was meted out, and so regarded in Israelite apocalyptic as well" (BDAG 991 s.v.). Grammatically, it has been translated as an indicative because it is an attendant circumstance participle.

Hell
Used as a translation of several biblical words: Hebrew sheol, Greek hadēs, geenna, and tartaroō = “confine to Tartarus,” 2 Pet. 2:4 only); the first two words describe the place where dead people go, the third refers to a place of punishment; thus “hell,” as used in various translations, encompasses a wide range of meanings; S. Hades, Gehenna, Sheol, Tartarus.


Karleen, P. S. (1987). The handbook to Bible study: With a guide to the Scofield study system (332). New York: Oxford University Press.

HELL[Gk géenna, tartaróō—‘hold captive in Tartarus’]. On Gk. géenna, see GEHENNA. In the NT Gk. tartaróō occurs only in 2 Pet. 2:4, where the angels who sinned were “cast … into hell” (cf. RSV mg and NAB). The verb tartaróō is derived from the noun Tartaros (cf. LXX Job 40:20; 41:24 [Eng. 32]; Prov. 30:16), which in Greek mythology was the locale below Hades where the Titans were imprisoned (Homer Il xiv.279; Josephus CAp ii.33 [240]). Homer also located it at the “undermost limits of earth and sea” (Il. viii.481). His description of it as murky (viii.13) apparently carried over to SibOr 4:186 and perhaps to 2 Pet. 2:4, since Peter described Tartarus as having “pits of nether gloom.”

Lee, G. A. (1979–1988). Hell. In G. W. Bromiley (Ed.), . Vol. 2: The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised (G. W. Bromiley, Ed.) (677). Wm. B. Eerdmans.

In 2 Pet. 2:4 only, we find the Verb tartaroō, translated in RSV ‘cast into hell’, and rendered by the Pesh. ‘cast down to the lower regions’. Tartaros is the classical word for the place of eternal punishment but is here applied to the intermediate sphere of punishment for fallen angels.

Innes, D. K. (1996). Hell. In D. R. W. Wood, I. H. Marshall, A. R. Millard, J. I. Packer & D. J. Wiseman (Eds.), New Bible dictionary (D. R. W. Wood, I. H. Marshall, A. R. Millard, J. I. Packer & D. J. Wiseman, Ed.) (3rd ed.) (464). Leicester, England; Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.

Tartarus was regarded by the ancient Greeks as that abiding place where rebellious gods and other wicked ones were punished. Its only NT use is in 2 Pet. 2:4 which says that the angels that sinned “were confined in Tartarus” and “kept unto judgment.”
Additional Descriptions of Suffering After final judgment, the lost experience continual and unimaginable suffering and torment. Such phrases as “weeping and gnashing of teeth” and “outer darkness” (Matt. 8:12; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30; 13:28) and “their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44, 46, 48 HCSB) indicate emotional and physical, as well as spiritual, suffering. Degrees of judgment and suffering are also indicated by such texts as Matt. 10:15; 11:22, 24; 18:6; Mark 6:11; Luke 10:12, 14.
Interpretations There are two broad questions to be answered which are vital to a proper understanding of the biblical teaching concerning hell. First, is the punishment of hell eternal or temporary? Second, does the Bible teach a literal or figurative hell?


Shackelford David G., & Clendenen, E. (2003). Hell. In C. Brand, C. Draper, A. England, S. Bond & T. C. Butler (Eds.), Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary (C. Brand, C. Draper, A. England, S. Bond & T. C. Butler, Ed.) (745). Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers.

ταρταρόω (Τάρταρος ‘the Netherworld’) 1 aor. ἐταρτάρωσα (Acusilaus Hist. [V B.C.]: 2 Fgm. 8 Jac. I p. 50; Lydus, Men. 4, 158 p. 174, 26 W.; cp. Sext. Emp., Pyrrh. Hypot. 3, 24, 210 ὁ Ζεὺς τὸν Κρόνον κατεταρτάρωσεν [this compound several times in Ps.—Apollod.: 1, 1, 4; 1, 2, 1, 2; 1, 2, 3]. Tartarus, thought of by the Greeks as a subterranean place lower than Hades where divine punishment was meted out, and so regarded in Israelite apocalyptic as well: Job 41:24; En 20:2; Philo, Exs. 152; Jos., C. Ap. 2, 240; SibOr 2, 302; 4, 186) hold captive in Tartarus 2 Pt 2:4.—DELG s.v. Τάρταρος. M-M.

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed.) (991). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.


1.25 ταρταρόω: (derivative of τάρταρος ‘Tartarus, hell,’ as a place of torture or torment, not occurring in the NT) to cast into or to cause to remain in Tartarus—‘to hold in Tartarus, to cast into hell.’ ἀλλὰ σειραῖς ζόφου ταρταρώσας ‘but held them in Tartarus by means of chains of darkness’ or ‘cast them into hell where they are kept chained in darkness’ 2 Pe 2:4. In many cases it is confusing to add still another term for a designation of hell by transliterating the Greek τάρταρος, and so most translators have preferred to render ταρταρόω as either ‘to cast into hell’ or ‘to keep in hell,’ thus using for ‘hell’ the same term as is employed for a rendering of the Greek term γέεννα (1.21).

Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Vol. 1: Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.) (6). New York: United Bible Societies.

The word tartarōsas (ταρταρωσας) is the Greek pagan name for the place of punishment of the evil. Strachan says: “In Homer, Hades is the place of confinement for dead men, and Tartarus is the name given to a murky abyss beneath Hades in which the sins of fallen immortals are punished. Hence II Peter uses this word in agreement with the Book of Enoch (where Tartarus is the place of punishment of fallen angels) and Greek mythology because he is speaking of fallen angels and not of men.”

Wuest, K. S. (1997). Wuest's word studies from the Greek New Testament: For the English reader (2 Pe 2:4). Grand Rapids: Eerdmans.

Tartarus The prison of the ancient Greek deities in Hesiod’s Theogony, a classical Greek story with conceptual parallels to Gen 6:1–4. Tartarus is a place of extreme torment

Barry, J. D., Heiser, M. S., Custis, M., Mangum, D., & Whitehead, M. M. (2012). Faithlife Study Bible (2 Pe 2:4). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

The verb is a ἅπαξ λεγ. τάρταρος occurs in three passages of LXX. (Job 40:15 (20), 41:22 (23), Prov. 24:51 (30:16): but in none of these is there any corresponding idea in the Hebrew. The word also occurs in Enoch xx. 2, where Gehenna is the place of punishment for apostate Jews, and Tartarus for the fallen angels. In Homer (e.g. Il. viii. 13) Hades is the place of confinement for dead men, and Tartarus is the name given to a murky abyss beneath Hades in which the sins of fallen Immortals (Kronos, Japetos, and the Titans) are punished (cf. Salmond, H.B.D. 2:344 a). Hence 2 Peter uses this word in agreement with the Book of Enoch and Greek mythology, because he is speaking of fallen angels and not of men. As regards the cosmology that is here implied, it has been suggested that the earth is not regarded as flat, but the universe is conceived as two concentric spheres, the outer heaven, the inner the earth. The nether half of heaven is Tartarus, and the nether half of the earth is Hades (St. Clair, Expositor, July, 1902). The use of the word by 2 Peter is remarkable as implying an atmosphere of Greek thought in the circle in which he moved, and for which he wrote. ζόφος in Homer is used of the gloom of the nether world, Od. xx. 356, cf. Heb. 12:18. Also v. 17 and Jude 6, 13. It is implied that fallen angels and unrighteous men alike undergo temporary punishment until the day of their final doom, cf. ver. 9. Enoch x. 4, 12, lxxxviii. 2.

Strachan, R. The Second Epistle General of Peter. In The Expositor's Greek Testament, Volume V: Commentary (134–135). New York: George H. Doran Company.

Location, location, location - it's all Hell, dude.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Read what I posted so I don't have to repeat

The author of Jude compares them to Sodom and Gomorra and their sexual immorality
Jud 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but threw them into hell and locked them up in chains in utter darkness, to be kept until the judgment,
2Pe 2:5 and if he did not spare the ancient world, but did protect Noah, a herald of righteousness, along with seven others, when God brought a flood on an ungodly world,

These angels sinned! What was their sin? When did they sin? QUOTE PRAXEAS



This says they morphed into humans and had sex with women? Very funny bro...


Gen 6:1-4 is talking about Godly sons of Adam(Seth) falling into fornication, not fallen angels morphing into human like beings and making demon babies...

During the time of Seth, men began to call on the name of the Lord, but by the time of Noah, they had fallen away. It would be the equivalent if all but 8 Christians backslid into fornication these days. The world would be declared officially completely wicked and must be judged. That is all that happened in Genesis... Men were absolutely no different than nowadays, and neither were angels and demons.(nothing strange, mystical or different in the spirit world than today, we only imagine it was like that before the flood)


Angels are NOT men....notice the following passage is dealing with male-MEN(bold), mankind is the subject matter...not demonic beings....


And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, (This is about MEN multiplying here....Not other beings)

2 That the sons of God(men) saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. (fornication rampant)

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man,(not angels) for that he(man) also is flesh: yet his(man) days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons(men) of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Sean

The author of Jude compares them to Sodom and Gomorra and their sexual immorality
Jud 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but threw them into hell and locked them up in chains in utter darkness, to be kept until the judgment,
2Pe 2:5 and if he did not spare the ancient world, but did protect Noah, a herald of righteousness, along with seven others, when God brought a flood on an ungodly world,

These angels sinned! What was their sin? When did they sin?

I believe the comparison in Jude 1:7 between the angels and Sodom and Gomorrah was the end result - judgment and eternal fire. Not that both had committed sexual sin, but that both had sinned and would be destroyed by it.

As you have stated, it's a stretch to think that the angels are being accused of sexual immorality with humans. As mfblume puts it - "Nonsense".

Eternal fire as a result is the point. Sin and final judgment is the point. Or rather, that we will not be spared any more than an angel who rebelled, according to 2 Peter 2:4 - "For if God spared not the angels..."

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I believe the comparison in Jude 1:7 between the angels and Sodom and Gomorrah was the end result - judgment and eternal fire. Not that both had committed sexual sin, but that both had sinned and would destroyed by it.

As you have stated, it's a stretch to think that the angels are being accused of sexual immorality with humans. As mfblume puts it - "Nonsense".

Eternal fire as a result is the point. Sin and final judgment is the point. Or rather, that we will not be spared any more than an angel who rebelled, according to 2 Peter 2:4 - "For if God spared not the angels..."

Amen, folks are just "parroting" what some false theologians have taught and cannot look at it logically. Prior to the flood, there was no weird, mystical, visible, demonic activity rampant on the earth. Our days are compared with Noahs days...Why dont WE have the same situation as they supposedly did?
Because it never happened or God is definitely unfair to Noahs generation...(turning demons loose on these folks to take their women, while men look on, causing this so called horrendous sin of morphing to destroy the world)

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Sean

Amen, folks are just "parroting" what some false theologians have taught and cannot look at it logically. Prior to the flood, there was no weird, mystical, visible, demonic activity rampant on the earth. Our days are compared with Noahs days...Why dont WE have the same situation as they supposedly did?
Because it never happened or God is definitely unfair to Noahs generation...

Agreed, no weird, mystical stuff going on with angels and humans beings.