Creflo Dollar

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Nitehawk, even though we have rarely spanked our children, I'm NOT opposed to spanking, especially in the context of disciplining a rebellious child. I'm still confused as to why ANY Christian parent would support Creflo Dollar or any other Christian slapping or choking their child. A spanking and a beating are two different things. My husband was raised in an abusive home--they were whipped with a belt until blood ran down their legs, and whipped until they STOPPED crying, among other things. That's not "spanking"; that's abuse. Even if it's for a "good reason", it's still abuse.

It just baffles me when these news stories come up and it's like all parents who favor corporal punishment have to show solidarity for the parent over the child-victim, even if the punishment is obviously too harsh. Why? Denouncing violence and extreme behavior doesn't mean you have to denounce corporal punishment.

Ya, many many moons ago my dad was one who first started a spanking for whatever the reason was but then continued until you STOPPED crying. Never understood that to this day other than it probably turned into a weird power trip.

But guess what. I am an adult now and NO ONE can hit me for not going to church. Ha ha ha!
(I bring this up because by this time in my life I wasn't spanked so much as thrown around and beat with the belt -all to keep the image of the perfect nuclear church family attending services 4-6 times a week. So the idea that the rebellion was knocked out of me is... how shall I put it.... a load of bull excrement.)

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Horrible books and horrible authors. UnbeLIEVable how many Christians embrace their books and tactics.

If I ever caught someone literally beating an infant I would probably hold up a certain Texas rancher as an example of what I needed to do.

[Nitehawk013]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Ya, many many moons ago my dad was one who first started a spanking for whatever the reason was but then continued until you STOPPED crying. Never understood that to this day other than it probably turned into a weird power trip.

But guess what. I am an adult now and NO ONE can hit me for not going to church. Ha ha ha!
(I bring this up because by this time in my life I wasn't spanked so much as thrown around and beat with the belt -all to keep the image of the perfect nuclear church family attending services 4-6 times a week. So the idea that the rebellion was knocked out of me is... how shall I put it.... a load of bull excrement.)

I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that what was done to you is the norm or justifiable.

The pendulum was just as far to the right in your situation as it is to the left in the "don't spank, just talk to your kids" folks. I prefer the middle.

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

When we bought our house, one of the upstairs rooms was first designated as a play room for our son. He was 4 at the time.

This play room was a mess of messes one day and we had people coming over to see the house. So we told him he needed to clean the play room up, which he had already done when we had asked before. He said he didn't want to. His mother made it clear to him he needed to clean it. I went outside to do some work outside, and when I came back in maybe 20 minutes later, he was standing in the play room still refusing to clean it up. So I asked him what he was supposed to be doing. He said he was supposed to be cleaning. I asked why he wasn't doing it and he again said he didn't want to. So I told him clearly that he was not listening to his mother and I and that rebellion would not be tolerated. I was going out to finsih up outside and if I came back in he had better be cleaning or he was getting a spanking.

So, I come back in maybe 15 or 20 later an dhe was still just standing in the room not cleaning. I asked him why he wasn't cleaning and he said he didn't want to. I reminded him of what I said about the spanking and he sai dhe didn't want a spanking. So I told him he was getting a spanking because he was being disobediant. So he got spanked. Then I got him to stop crying so had and told him he needed to clean the room. He said he didn't want to. So I told him he needed to clean the room and that if I came back and he wasn't cleaning, he was going to get another spanking.

He did not clean, so he got the same speech and a second spanking. He STILL said he didn't want to clean and wouldn't do it. So, he was given a THIRD spanking. A few minutes after this he finally decided it was time to clean up the room.

Using our words didn't convince him to do what was asked. Threats of not getting his toys didn't. Rebellion reared up in this sweet 4 year olds heart and it was not goign to be talked down. It had to be squashed.

Since that time we have not seen anywhere near that spirit of rebellion out of him. Say what you will, but I believe it is because he learned the hard way that we would not tolerate such attitude from him and that any such attitude would be met with force.

The difference is that your child is FOUR years old. I don't disagree with spanking a child if that is your last resort - if you've tried other tings first, which it sounds like you did. But as I said before, spanking is only effective up to a certain age. When a child is 4, their attention span is not a week long. So you can't ground them for a week. By the end of the day, they will have forgotten why they were grounded anyway. You have to consider two things when disciplining a child 1) the age and attention span of the child. and 2) the punishment should ALWAYS fit the crime.

I have done home daycare for the past 27 years. I've had times when I had a child who flat out refused to help pick up toys. The way that I have handled these situations which has worked in every single case is this:
1) I explain to the rebellious little one that if they do not do their share in picking up toys, then they will not be allowed to play with the toys for the rest of the day. Make sure they understand that clearly!
2) I give all kinds of positive remarks to the ones who are busy doing what they've been told to do, completely ignoring the one who is not helping.
3) When the others get to play again later, I make sure I am in the room and I remind them consistently that they are not allowed to touch any of the toys. They don't have to sit on a chair or anything like that. But they sure hate having to just walk around the room watching the others play and have fun.

Never had to do that twice with the same child.
But if they had continued to rebel in that way, then yes, I would have looked for more drastic measures. On the other hand, one thing I tell every parent who interviews to come here is that while I do on VERY rare occasions spank a child, it is ONLY ever because they have done something that is dangerous either for them or for another person. Otherwise, I've found that I can deal with things and actually teach them better by using non-physical means. Maybe that's just me.

But I hold firm to the stand that I would NOT lay my hands on a 15 year old. If things get that far out of hand, call Children's Services and ask for their help. They can come out and threaten to put your child in foster care (we were foster parents. I know this can happen! I've seen it work many times). There ARE other ways to discipline - much more effective ways.

[Nitehawk013]

Foster care? Putting kids ina foster program is better for a kid than having a parent physically deal with their rebellious attitude now?

I've seen some foster programs and I think the beating would be better for them.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Ya, many many moons ago my dad was one who first started a spanking for whatever the reason was but then continued until you STOPPED crying. Never understood that to this day other than it probably turned into a weird power trip.

But guess what. I am an adult now and NO ONE can hit me for not going to church. Ha ha ha!
(I bring this up because by this time in my life I wasn't spanked so much as thrown around and beat with the belt -all to keep the image of the perfect nuclear church family attending services 4-6 times a week. So the idea that the rebellion was knocked out of me is... how shall I put it.... a load of bull excrement.)

Or...if you got a punishment you did not deserve because you were blamed for something you did not do. If you started crying because you knew it was unfair punishment, your daddy would say stop crying or I will give you something (whipping) to cry about....

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

Foster care? Putting kids ina foster program is better for a kid than having a parent physically deal with their rebellious attitude now?

I've seen some foster programs and I think the beating would be better for them.

Did you read the whole post? You missed the point. The idea was to put the fear of God in them and let them see that there could be serious longterm consequences to their actions.

I don't think Margie was actually suggesting to PUT difficult children into foster care.

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Did you read the whole post? You missed the point. The idea was to put the fear of God in them and let them see that there could be serious longterm consequences to their actions.

I don't think Margie was actually suggesting to PUT difficult children into foster care.

Right! exactly. Most people don't realize that the people at children's services are honestly not there just to take your child away. They have lots of other services they can provide a family - they can teach a parent how to discipline without beating. They can connect a family with counselors if needed (and frankly, if you have a child at 15 who pushes your buttons to the point that you feel the need to choke them, then there is a clear need for intervention!).

[Margies3]

When we were doing foster care, we had a family of 4 children from Guatemala (they were migrant workers). The oldest was only 6 years old and was responsible for the younger 3, including an infant all day long every day. One day the father was angry with her because she had played with her friends instead of taking care of the other 3. So he stripped her back bare, hung her by the wrists from the rafters of their cabin and beat her with a belt.

I had to teach that poor child HOW to be a child again when they came here. We had them for several months while Children's Services worked with the parents, teaching them how to discipline in an acceptable way. This was a family committed to doing whatever it took to get their children back and they did really well, eventually being reunited with their little ones.

They had had their kids back for about a year when one day the father called Children's Services. He said to them that the oldest one had gone with them to WalMart and had shoplifted a candy bar. His discipline in the past would have involved beating her. But since he didn't know what to do, he wanted Children's Services to come out and work with his family to help them thru this. They did exactly that. I'd say this dad did things the way they needed to be done in his case

[canam]

We had an evangelist come to our church one time a real hard core con.acting,sort ,he dint even believe the men should be looking at GQ mag(not that i do ) cause in his mind it stood for generally queer ! one of his boys did something and the assistant told me he witnessed part of, or all of the kids punishment ,he whips his belt off and goes ok boooy, whats it gonna be 10 whoops wit your pants on the floor or 20 wit you pants up, while he is popping the belt , i couldnt believe it, he was lucky i didnt witness it ,im not one to put up with that .Fotunately he has never been back.