Great changes are coming...

[bbyrd009]

I am praying God's will for you this morning, JS.
He backs away so that you may expand.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Jack Shephard

For me. Since being a part of this forum and not because of this forum I have gone through mutliple levels of change in my spiritual walk. Right now is no different. I have come to a place where all that I know in the head doesn't match what the heart feels. It's a scary place to be and I don't know wherethe end result will leave me. I have many, too many questions that in my head I have an answer for, but in my heart I have not been able to reconcile. I have privately communicated with a one or two of you on this matter and thank you for listening and for all the advise. Now I am taking this to a public forum...sorta public that is. Most of you all know I have changed my name on here recently. If you didn't know, my avatar is the same as before and all my info is still intact so you should know who I am.

I am sure each of you reading this have been through something akin to this. Whether it was going Lib to Con and back to Lib or whatever. I may be a different person upon completion of this journey...maybe for the better, maybe not depending on where you are standing and looking from. I know that at the end I hope to be able to sleep better at night and feel better. For too long, even after I left the UPC I have felt a bit of anxiety when talking about my spiritual life and/or spiritual walk. I know who I am, I know what my wants are for my spiritual life. Only a few people really, I mean really know me...those that do would tell you I am a very loyal friend, ferociously in fact. I know that won't change, but all other things may...I am scared and also very interested where this will leave me in the end.

God Bless!

I can't say I know who you are, only that you sound very much like me.....it can be a very scary journey, but I can also say since leaving the UPC 7 years ago (WOW! Hard to believe it has been that long already!) it has been very much worth the trip. Although I must say the first 4 years or so were very rough.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Practical terms...

Let's say I decided to convert to Catholicism. No one would argue I don't have that right. I am an American adult and can certainly make my own choices.

I am saying it would be better to procure the sacred unity and stability of my home and family, than to thoroughly disrupt the faith traditions I have taught them in the past.

Now, if the family is moving at the same pace, things might be different.

I am saying that, to me, family is a sacred institution and deserves our primary respect and consideration.

When I was changing, I did practice this....I think being respectful of other's views is important. I don't think I would be the person I am today if I hadn't done that. I was willing to stay UPC and work through it if my husband had wanted that. As it was, he wanted to leave too.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Ya know, it's funny, when I was in church, everyone said that the husband is the spiritual leader of the family. Now that I'm out, nobody ever mentions that!

(Edit: not that you're on your way out or anything. I'm just sayin'. )

That's because you are ONLY the spiritual leader if you lead the way they want you to!

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Jack Shephard

A warrior I was once until I was carried out on my shield. I fought my fight to the end, full of faith, full of vigor, but fell and lost it all. I know I am not where I "should" be based on what others have said of where God "wants" us. I know I won't ever be where I was...I am on my shield a destroyed warrior.

These words really resonate with me....I completely understand. However, looking for a kind word on this forum might not be wise. I had to leave to heal. Just sayin'.....

[jsipe]

Guys, repeat after me.
I was born for God's blessings.
Sometimes we get so caught up on what is right and wrong we don't take the time to just feels his love, understanding, and most of all we don't feel like we should have his blessings. We think we have to have troubles and sorrows to be in the will of God.That just isn't so. There are times that we just need to stand still and let Him surround us with his presences. Let Him heal and restore. Just take the time to stand still and hear the still small voice.
He created us for his blessings! Praise the Lord! we are his grand creation!
speak blessings into your own lives and the lives of your families. Not curses but blessings. This is not saying that you agreed with what they are doing, but if you speak the blessings into their lives you are putting the Lord on their lives and giving Him premission to change them and lead them in the right ways.
Read Genesis 27: 26-40
Read this and see how important blessings were then and still now today.
we have forgotten how to bless, and be blessed.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by ILG

These words really resonate with me....I completely understand. However, looking for a kind word on this forum might not be wise. I had to leave to heal. Just sayin'.....

I don't know; he seemed to get a lot of support after my posts, lol...what is "kind?" How does one know? "Truth" and "kind" unfortunately tend to be mutually exclusive to us.

Paul goes on about this, in those verses that make so little sense to us,
for just this reason, I think. Although God's backing away does not feel kind,
it ends up being just that. This may not help you a lot today, except to see that there is a path to a better tomorrow than your yesterday. imo.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Practical terms...
I am saying that, to me, family is a sacred institution and deserves our primary respect and consideration.

We've already had one go-round about this, Hoovie; and I must say that I disagree. Or at least, this seems to contradict
"There is a way that seems right to a man, that leads to death,"
and
"Hate your family for My sake."

So maybe better if I ask you to..."clarify." Ty

[Hoovie]

I think I did clarify it Birdie... here are the posts.

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Byrd,

No it does not negate Christ's instruction to "hate your family".

Assuming Jack Shephard's family is presently "in Christ", I see two possibilities happening.

1. Jack is moving to a new, deeper, different understanding in his Christian walk.
If this is the case, "hating your family" would not apply since both are in Christ. Love and respect is in order first. Your own pursuits and personal explorations of your journey are a distant second to the God given obligation to protect the sacred unity of the family. Therefore the couple moves and grows together, and major decisions affecting the family are made as one.

2. If Jack is moving away and outside Christ (and I am not saying this is the case!) then the scriptures are no longer sacred, and the "hate your family" instruction is a moot point.

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Well, everyone must interpret this for themselves. I would disagree at the bolded, quite strongly actually, especially if you are a man. This defines "hate your family," for me. your "family's" unity derives from their acceptance of your authority; and, they should be relying on the same source, ultimately.

Your family is surely way too spoiled, anyway; it'll be good for them : )
My feeling here is "kiss 'em goodbye!" with a "I'm following God, wherever He leads; you are free to follow (your obligation to me as the head of the fam), or not! Hosanna, baby.

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I do disagree. If both husband and wife are Christian, then love and respect is the primary consideration. The husband directs and leads like a good pastor, but never arbitrarily imposes his choices in secondary issues just because he can. Love demands deference over rights.

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I respect and honor my wife's spiritual discernment at least as much as my own. Even when we come to different conclusions... So I do not "tell her" to take any leaps of faith. If that makes me a weak person, or ineffective leader so be it. The "hating" one's family only comes into play when loving God is prevented by the family.

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Ya, it's easier to spout when you're single, lol.

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

We've already had one go-round about this, Hoovie; and I must say that I disagree. Or at least, this seems to contradict
"There is a way that seems right to a man, that leads to death,"
and
"Hate your family for My sake."

So maybe better if I ask you to..."clarify." Ty

[bbyrd009]

A good frame of our fundamental disagreement here.