Old Time Pentecost

[AreYouReady?]

Not out of town. Just observing posts.

I just realized last week that what all I have been trying to convey ... how I felt about my experiences in UPC...well...you all have heard it all before. And what's more, you all probably have heard it many, many times. It's almost like the defacto definition of insanity...one keeps doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. It's always going to be a tug of war about both sides feeling they are correct and nobody will meet halfway because one side will see it as "compromising" and the other does not want to be subjected to abuse anymore at the hands of any church.

You see, when I have tried to convey how I felt to my sisters in the church, they all usually got huffy and walked away. I was always the one with the bad spirit. I was the one who would never be happy in any church and nothing would ever make me happy. They never addressed the problems in the church because to do so would amount to "touching the anointed". Or if one tried to tell another sister something and that sister got her feelings hurt instead of really listening to the other grievance, all the others started to take sides and one would be counted as a "discord sower". It goes on and on.

You know what? They were right because each church I went to mirrored the one I left. Each church did not have any love in them. None wanted to sit down and listen to any grievances. They could not handle it. They would rather make themselves feel better by saying that I just "did not want to live for God". It was their lack of love and cold shouldering that cinched my decision to leave.

The Old Paths? Yes, I want to return to the old paths, but I am going to have to move to another region where nobody knows me. As I said in another thread, ministers talk about saints that leave their church and the saint has no opportunity to discuss their side of it. The pastor is always right, the saint who left is always in the wrong, the troublemaker, the one on the verge of backsliding. I don't expect anything less living in a region where many of the churches are run by a dynasty.

The Old Paths? Yes, I want to go to a place where old toothless women shout their love for the Lord and come and grab you and hug you and you feel real, genuine love. Where all the sisters give each other sisterly love and respect. I want my pastor to preach the word with love and quit trying to tell grown adults how to live, what to wear. He should have faith in the Holy Spirit to help the people with these matters. Quit trying to keep adults little babies in the Lord and help them to grow and bloom so that they can go out and minister to others without "permission". If I could find that in a tent meeting or a brush arbor, I would favor that over padded pews and comfort climate in a heartbeat.

Ya know, in all the years I've been in Pentecost, not one pastor graced my doorway to come and visit with me, pray for my family or call us out of love and concern. Not one. Not in the beginning when I first got the Holy Ghost and was in need of discipleship. And not in the end when I was going through some severe problems.

However, God knows my heart and He has been with me despite not going into a church building.


My husband still goes to area churches once in a while. He went to one particular church who had a well-known visiting preacher for revival. I will not mention his name on here. The minister preached about the church finding a way for all the people who left the "church" (meaning UPC) to come back. He preached that "We must get them back, they belong here".

My husband went up to him after service and told him that if he was willing to listen for a few minutes, he could tell him just what it was going to take to get the people to come back. The Minister did not have time, would not make time, and did not bother to get his name and number to talk to him later.

I want old time pentecost probably more than any of you, because I am old enough to remember the times when churches fellowshipped each other and love permeated the auditorium, the prayer rooms and it was exciting to wonder what good service God had in store for us that night.

[The Matt]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Not out of town. Just observing posts.

I just realized last week that what all I have been trying to convey ... how I felt about my experiences in UPC...well...you all have heard it all before. And what's more, you all probably have heard it many, many times. It's almost like the defacto definition of insanity...one keeps doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. It's always going to be a tug of war about both sides feeling they are correct and nobody will meet halfway because one side will see it as "compromising" and the other does not want to be subjected to abuse anymore at the hands of any church.

You see, when I have tried to convey how I felt to my sisters in the church, they all usually got huffy and walked away. I was always the one with the bad spirit. I was the one who would never be happy in any church and nothing would ever make me happy. They never addressed the problems in the church because to do so would amount to "touching the anointed". Or if one tried to tell another sister something and that sister got her feelings hurt instead of really listening to the other grievance, all the others started to take sides and one would be counted as a "discord sower". It goes on and on.

You know what? They were right because each church I went to mirrored the one I left. Each church did not have any love in them. None wanted to sit down and listen to any grievances. They could not handle it. They would rather make themselves feel better by saying that I just "did not want to live for God". It was their lack of love and cold shouldering that cinched my decision to leave.

The Old Paths? Yes, I want to return to the old paths, but I am going to have to move to another region where nobody knows me. As I said in another thread, ministers talk about saints that leave their church and the saint has no opportunity to discuss their side of it. The pastor is always right, the saint who left is always in the wrong, the troublemaker, the one on the verge of backsliding. I don't expect anything less living in a region where many of the churches are run by a dynasty.

The Old Paths? Yes, I want to go to a place where old toothless women shout their love for the Lord and come and grab you and hug you and you feel real, genuine love. Where all the sisters give each other sisterly love and respect. I want my pastor to preach the word with love and quit trying to tell grown adults how to live, what to wear. He should have faith in the Holy Spirit to help the people with these matters. Quit trying to keep adults little babies in the Lord and help them to grow and bloom so that they can go out and minister to others without "permission". If I could find that in a tent meeting or a brush arbor, I would favor that over padded pews and comfort climate in a heartbeat.

Ya know, in all the years I've been in Pentecost, not one pastor graced my doorway to come and visit with me, pray for my family or call us out of love and concern. Not one. Not in the beginning when I first got the Holy Ghost and was in need of discipleship. And not in the end when I was going through some severe problems.

However, God knows my heart and He has been with me despite not going into a church building.


My husband still goes to area churches once in a while. He went to one particular church who had a well-known visiting preacher for revival. I will not mention his name on here. The minister preached about the church finding a way for all the people who left the "church" (meaning UPC) to come back. He preached that "We must get them back, they belong here".

My husband went up to him after service and told him that if he was willing to listen for a few minutes, he could tell him just what it was going to take to get the people to come back. The Minister did not have time, would not make time, and did not bother to get his name and number to talk to him later.

I want old time pentecost probably more than any of you, because I am old enough to remember the times when churches fellowshipped each other and love permeated the auditorium, the prayer rooms and it was exciting to wonder what good service God had in store for us that night.

I'm sorry you got burnt. But please don't let that turn you off of churches altogether. There ARE good old time churches out there, that have learned to mature out of ways like that. There are churches that actually preach against that kind of behavior, there are pastors who realize that's not the way to go about things. I will pray tonight that you are able to overcome those feelings of hurt, and that you will be strong enough to give church a chance again.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by The Matt

I'm sorry you got burnt. But please don't let that turn you off of churches altogether. There ARE good old time churches out there, that have learned to mature out of ways like that. There are churches that actually preach against that kind of behavior, there are pastors who realize that's not the way to go about things. I will pray tonight that you are able to overcome those feelings of hurt, and that you will be strong enough to give church a chance again.

Thank you Matt. I appreciate your prayers.

Perhaps you could help me pray out the 3rd generation dynasty of "pastors" who have a stronghold in this area. The apathy of the people who do not want change is contributing to the stronghold in this area. They keep voting in the children of the same old tired pastors to be their pastor and the old one becomes Pastor Emeritus. That includes the nephews dotted around the towns in the region. The lone church in the city I live nearby who is not the result of a dynasty is not going to go against the others who literally control the UPC environment. Strangely, the churches do not seem to fellowship with each other except on Facebook.

[The Matt]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Thank you Matt. I appreciate your prayers.

Perhaps you could help me pray out the 3rd generation dynasty of "pastors" who have a stronghold in this area. The apathy of the people who do not want change is contributing to the stronghold in this area. They keep voting in the children of the same old tired pastors to be their pastor and the old one becomes Pastor Emeritus. That includes the nephews dotted around the towns in the region. The lone church in the city I live nearby who is not the result of a dynasty is not going to go against the others who literally control the UPC environment. Strangely, the churches do not seem to fellowship with each other except on Facebook.

I will pray God's will be done in all churches of the United States.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by scotty

LOL, you show them scripture. Lets see, the "man of God" is closer than the rest?? Really ? You don't believe that ? Everyone in the world is equally close to God ? Interesting, not biblical, but interesting. The "man of God" hears from God in ways others don't. Yes thats scriptural too. Now, if your referring to "the man of God" as a pastor, then I don't know. I am referring to the "man of God" as any individual follower of Christ. Which is exactly as it should be.
Sounds like you have had a terrible experience. Almost sounds like a good horror book, lol. Sorry you didn't get out of it sooner. But of course that's the motherships fault.

I don't get the frequent references to the 'mothership'... sounds like maybe you've been smokin' somethin'... KWIM? ...Sure you do...

By 'man of God' I mean it in exactly the same sense it has been used by every preacher and evangelist I have heard say it in the last decade... and that is NOT every believer in Christ and you know it... but hey if you want to make up your own definitions that only you understand go ahead, I'm all good with it.

I think I had an average experience, nothing particularity horrible although it was horrible. Judging from what others who have gotten out have said my experience was certainly not the worst I've heard of, there were even some good parts . It was always 'seek after God with all your heart and soul' from the pulpit... right up until that seeking put me one step off the preached path... 'Get out of your comfort zone and do something for God' right up 'till I got out of the preachers comfort zone by giving my tithe check to a widow to help bury her husband.

At least I can still consider going to church unlike my poor neighbor Peggy who was so shaken by what went on in her experience she swears that she will never go past the doorway of another church again. She was a new convert that had no previous church experience... I am thankful for my years in the Baptist church where there was a church government and accountability and not a dictator or mini-Pope who ruled with an iron fist while preaching about the good ol' brush arbor days of 24 straight hours of HG filled tongue talking... You've heard enough... no I can't love what it stands for anymore... and I don't wax nostalgic for it.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

At least I can still consider going to church unlike my poor neighbor Peggy who was so shaken by what went on in her experience she swears that she will never go past the doorway of another church again. She was a new convert that had no previous church experience... I am thankful for my years in the Baptist church where there was a church government and accountability and not a dictator or mini-Pope who ruled with an iron fist while preaching about the good ol' brush arbor days of 24 straight hours of HG filled tongue talking... You've heard enough... no I can't love what it stands for anymore... and I don't wax nostalgic for it.

They talk about the good ol brush arbor days...yet they are the ones who took pentecost out of "those days" by wanting to be like every other church and some got greedy doing it too.

One pastor had big plans of landscaping around the church with a waterfall. This same pastor was really ugly and yelled at my husband for stepping on the grass.
Boy...that grass was so important.

[PASTOR'S WIFE]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

They talk about the good ol brush arbor days...yet they are the ones who took pentecost out of "those days" by wanting to be like every other church and some got greedy doing it too.

One pastor had big plans of landscaping around the church with a waterfall. This same pastor was really ugly and yelled at my husband for stepping on the grass.
Boy...that grass was so important.

PLease don't let the devil keep you out of church. That is his job... If you can't find a church of your denomination, find another Holy Ghost filled church and go to it. Nothing is worth keeping us out of Heaven.

Release it and let it go. That is hard but you do it for yourself and your family. It doesn't mean the other person or church is right, just means you are casting ALL your care upon Him for He careth for you. BITTERNESS is a strong hold and it will devour all your waking moments. It will rob you of your peace and joy and trust in people. I love Philippians chapter 4 and it has helped me so many times. REJOICE and again I say REJOICE. The chapter tells us what to think on.

BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT AND BOUGHT THE T-SHIRT...

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by PASTOR'S WIFE

PLease don't let the devil keep you out of church. That is his job... If you can't find a church of your denomination, find another Holy Ghost filled church and go to it. Nothing is worth keeping us out of Heaven.

Release it and let it go. That is hard but you do it for yourself and your family. It doesn't mean the other person or church is right, just means you are casting ALL your care upon Him for He careth for you. BITTERNESS is a strong hold and it will devour all your waking moments. It will rob you of your peace and joy and trust in people. I love Philippians chapter 4 and it has helped me so many times. REJOICE and again I say REJOICE. The chapter tells us what to think on.

BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT AND BOUGHT THE T-SHIRT...

Pastors wife, I think your words are kind and your heart is good...but... They still focus on the basic premise that somehow to be complete we must 'go' to church. And really that is the very first place that the 'church' falls down. While pastors will occasionally SAY it, their other words prove that they do not really believe that we ARE the church. There are really no sacred temples, the temple of the Holy Spirit is WITHIN US. The law has indeed been written on our hearts and we can gather ANYWHERE. At home, in the park, on a busy city street corner and I believe even on the internet for fellowship. We can love one another and support one another and carry each others burdens and it does not have to look anything like a traditional or even nontraditional 'church' service...

To me that is truly 'old time Pentecost'... it is the upper room, it is the racially mixed (in a day when that was wholly unacceptable) group at Azuza street, it was the brush arbors where women church planters led the worship and preached their hearts out... But it is always quickly replaced by temple building and law keeping, and making ourselves a king (pastor?) for salvation. Man will always make an idol if left to himself for five minutes... it is our nature. We will even have our sacred grass that is worth more than a persons feelings, or our sacred music department, or our holy-exalted-above-others-and-due-double-honor-preachers. And as we begin to care more for that then we care for people who need our help to know God, as we reject those who are not pleasing to us and don't fit the 'mold', as we no longer find our worship in selfless acts of service to others and sacrificial giving to those who have little or nothing but instead find it in great big beautiful buildings with sound systems and landscaping, and when we stop taking the message of Jesus to the people and insist that they must be attracted by our 'stuff' to come to church... well... we've lost the heart of Christ altogether and we have stopped BEING the church.

Those who break away from that are not always bitter or under the devil's influence or even out in the wilderness alone... sometimes, they are exactly where God wants them and He is pleased.

Shalom

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

...well... we've lost the heart of Christ altogether and we have stopped BEING the church.

Those who break away from that are not always bitter or under the devil's influence or even out in the wilderness alone... sometimes, they are exactly where God wants them and He is pleased.

Shalom

Amen. Please back away from anything you might label "confusion."
It will always be there, at least until it isn't, and you are free to return anytime you want. I really feel for people who have rarely/never moved, and feel trapped in a church system/locale that, from the descriptions above, certainly translate "madness."

When enough people say "brush arbor," you will then see "revival."
If your church outshines a brush arbor, then this doesn't apply.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

I don't get the frequent references to the 'mothership'... sounds like maybe you've been smokin' somethin'... KWIM? ...Sure you do...

By 'man of God' I mean it in exactly the same sense it has been used by every preacher and evangelist I have heard say it in the last decade... and that is NOT every believer in Christ and you know it... but hey if you want to make up your own definitions that only you understand go ahead, I'm all good with it.

I think I had an average experience, nothing particularity horrible although it was horrible. Judging from what others who have gotten out have said my experience was certainly not the worst I've heard of, there were even some good parts . It was always 'seek after God with all your heart and soul' from the pulpit... right up until that seeking put me one step off the preached path... 'Get out of your comfort zone and do something for God' right up 'till I got out of the preachers comfort zone by giving my tithe check to a widow to help bury her husband.

At least I can still consider going to church unlike my poor neighbor Peggy who was so shaken by what went on in her experience she swears that she will never go past the doorway of another church again. She was a new convert that had no previous church experience... I am thankful for my years in the Baptist church where there was a church government and accountability and not a dictator or mini-Pope who ruled with an iron fist while preaching about the good ol' brush arbor days of 24 straight hours of HG filled tongue talking... You've heard enough... no I can't love what it stands for anymore... and I don't wax nostalgic for it.

Oh please ! drop the backwoods act. Your smarter than you let on in some post then suddenly "out of touch" in others ??, lol. Really ?

Don't like your pastor, pray for him. Don't like your congregation, pray for them. Can't handle that, leave, which you did. So what is all the spillin milk about ? Yes, all this gets old, same ole same ole. Who knows, maybe they didn't like you either. Maybe there was something about you that they saw from the beginning. Maybe they saw right through all your service to the church when suddenly you had "ideas" to make things better. I love those types, come in and do so much for the church they suddenly think it gives them some kind of "shareholder" rights to direct it. yeah, we got one of those right now. Love her to death, but what a hypocrit.

Either way, you got rid of them or they got rid of you. everyone should be happy now , so why you here ? oh yeah, AA. lol.


(Sorry, Hoovie, just couldn't balance this one. Let all the boo hoo dramatics get to me this time)