Yes It Was God

[Scott Hutchinson]

Sure,I'm good natured and open minded.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Timmy,
I'm sorry for your loss, but, God didn't kill your brother with cancer. Cancer, the same thing that took my wife, killed your brother. I say that to say this: Bad things happen to all people. You know that as well as I do. And, bad things aren't a result of God's judgement. I'm afraid this "judgement" view of God is disturbing to say the least. For one thing, it portrays God as one who plays favorites. Job questioned that when he wondered why the righteous suffer, while the unrighteous seem to prosper. Life is as random as death. Christopher Reeves died as a result of his paralyzing injuries. His wife, who stood with him thru it all, died of lung cancer though she never smoked. No one knows why, thats why some resort to the "Cause and Effect theory". Their flawed reasoning, "This must have happened becaue THIS happened" is their way of trying to create order in a world full of chaos. I heard a preacher say "So and so died of a heart attack because he rejected God". The same preacher died of a heart attack and it was said of him, "He preached the truth, so the devil killed him". The order we try to create makes no sense.

The second reason I find this veiw disturbing is that it seeks to compell people to serve God out of fear rather than love. I talked to someone on the phone this morning that goes to church simply because she fears "what will happen to her if she don't". How sad is it that people see God as the vengeful God that is eager to destroy a mid-western city just because someone voiced his opinion. She told me about the death of a grandchild that happened "because she was out of church". How sad it is for people to see God as this vengeful, manipulative God.

Jesus taught the nation of Israel to love their enemies. To pray for those who persecute them. What kind of God would tell us to do that then turn around and smite the children of our enemies?

On 9/11 everyone, including Pres. Bush, assumed Iraq was behind the death and destruction in New York and Washington DC. I'll probably be lambasted for saying this, but America acted on an assumption. Pres. Bush justified his actions by saying "Sadaam Hussein MIGHT have weapons of mass destruction and MIGHT use them". So, Iraq was invaded. On an assumption. On vengence. No WMD were found and no proof of Husseins involvement was ever forthcoming. But yet, we wanted blood. And we got it
.
What I'm saying is this: Human beings act all too often on flawed logic. On flawed reasoning. God doesn't. And the God protrayed in this thread is a flawed God, that sends vengence on the righteous as well as the wicked. And, thats not the kind of God I wish to serve.

And please don't turn this around by saying OA doesn't support the troops. I most certainly do. They deserve and have my respect. And, on Memorial Day especially, I honor those who sacrificed their all, even though I may not wholeheartedly agree with the policy of a flawed, human government.

Well said, OA.
Thank you.

[Michael The Disciple]

[QUOTE=Michael The Disciple;1070272]Just did a search to check on this:

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors...ajorevents.htm

So did anyone read this? The verification of a connection?

[OneAccord]

Yep, and noticed the word "rumor" in the http. Thats all it is... rumor, speculation and conjecture. There is no "verification of a connection".


http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors...ajorevents.htm

[Michael The Disciple]

Ok I will try to give an example how God works.

First we see God was angry at Israel.

24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. 2 Samuel 24:1

So Israel had provoked YHWH. It was decided by the Wonderful Counselor that he would now move David against them to bring judgment.

The same story is given in Chronicles 21 but with an added detail.

21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. 1 Chronicles 21:1

It was determined that Satan would be the instrument that would cause David to cause the judgment to fall upon Israel.

So YHWH was determined to punish Israel no doubt because of some sin or accumulated sins. He allows the devil to do what he is known for. Tempt men to sin which David fell for.

The rest of the story:


24:12 Go and say unto David, Thus saith the LORD, I offer thee three things; choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee.
24:13 So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee? or that there be three days' pestilence in thy land? now advise, and see what answer I shall return to him that sent me.
24:14 And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let us fall now into the hand of the LORD; for his mercies are great: and let me not fall into the hand of man.
24:15 So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men.24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.
24:17 And David spake unto the LORD when he saw the angel that smote the people, and said, Lo, I have sinned, and I have done wickedly: but these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, be against me, and against my father's house. 2 Samuel 24:12-17

So YHWH was angry with the people of Israel. He allowed Satan to provoke David to number them. The prophet brings a word of doom to David. Then it comes to pass and 70000 people of Israel died in the plague.

David cries out to God that the people are innocent just punish me! Apparently David did not know that this episode in his life had been designed by God behind the scenes that he would judge the children of Israel. And judge them he did to the measure of 70000 of them dying in 3 days.

So in the end what happened? God did just what he planned which was to judge the people. Tho David thought they were innocent he was wrong. In reality YHWH was visiting their sins on them.

Perhaps Davids role was both to set the scene for the judgment and them also be the one who would be the only one in Israel who YHWH would hear prayer from for mercy once the sin was dealt with.

Fast forward to today. Is God angry with America? Could he (using satan) cause our rulers to do things that would cause him to react in such a way where judgment is meted out to the people?

Could it be in his plan to visit Americas sins upon them? In his judgments are there not seemingly innocent people that sometimes perish? Does God have knowledge of the life of every person alive or dead?

One time when David fell into adultery the child carried by Bathsheba wound up dying to punish David. God keeps books on how he will make all situations work. If indeed the innocent wind up being killed he knows how to make that right also. Unfortunately others or myself may not know exactly how but he knows.

Yet I must believe that YHWH has given this story as well as others to show that if he is angry at a people he will find a way or ways as the case may be to judge them. The new way of teaching that God is not allowed to judge the wicked until Jesus comes has no doubt gotten many in trouble.

Let us dwell in the secret place of the most high. An end time battle is coming. Billions of people are going to die. Let us live as close to God as we can. Eternity will make up for any and all loss we may suffer.

All nations will be involved. It just so happens I LIVE HERE so my comments reflect this.

[Michael The Disciple]

In post no. 63 and 93 you can read the ten events that lead people to the conlcusion I have also reached.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

In post no. 63 and 93 you can read the ten events that lead people to the conlcusion I have also reached.

You actually believe God killed people to punish or warn the country's leaders? Like he did (so it says) in Exodus?

[LUKE2447]

MTD... don't you understand that. God islong suffering = he never brings judgment of any kind. Don't you understand we are under grace and God is not a mean person anymore? Don't you understand that what "who" we view as Christians must be right because well they are good people? God does not do that anymore... he is all love. Natural events happen... pffft Thus cannot be God. Didn't God bring "prophets' to the people to "turn" or be detroyed? Forget all the TV and mass communnication of basic principles of truth all the time of "DON'T SIN." eehhh God is good all the time God is good. It's not like people are not standing up to abortion or other things this nation is doing to totally negate God. (sarcasm)

Note: I don't know whether it is or not God's judgment but I surely will not say it is not. Most of the points I have read here are pretty bad and only deal with small aspects vs the larger picture. Yes... God does bring justice on children because of their parents.

[acerrak]

[QUOTE=Michael The Disciple;1070547]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Just did a search to check on this:

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors...ajorevents.htm

So did anyone read this? The verification of a connection?

i did in a earlier post i qouted this then i called it garbage

[OneAccord]

Could be, Brother. But who has DONE anything? Our President stated his opinion. He suggested a plan to bring about peace in a region of the world that dosen't even know what peace is. So God brings swift judgement on innocent people in the American mid-west because someone voiced his opinion?

In the passages you referred to, David took a census and that angered God. First, its important to know why this seemingly innocent act angered God. By numbering Israel, David was showing his lack of faith in God, who had fought and conquered many of Israelsfoes by the strength of His own power. David's census shows that David was no longer trusting in God, but chose, rather, to trust his own military prowess. So, this brought God's anger and 70,000 died because of it. 70,000. Does this compare to the tornadoes in Missouri? How many tornadoes, and other natural disasters in history would it take to equal 70,000 deaths? The dots between what you cited and that of recent natural disasters just do not connect.

So, Is God angry? Well, yes, He is angry "at the wicked EVERY day". (Ps. 7:11). And, according to the Bible, the wicked will be held accountable for their wickedness. But, is that to say every whirlwind or earthquake is judgement? No. Nor is it judgement everytime someone speaks against Israel, a nation that has rejected Jesus Christ as their Messaih. Its a little thing called 'conincidence".

When I was a kid, I would walk in the bright sunshine down a country road and I'd see, along the fence line, small trees and fence posts. Nothing to fear. But, after dark, all that changed and I'd see bears, ghosts and Big Foots in the murky dark. These are dark times, Brother. What are naturally occurring events in the bright light of peace and economic stability are just that- naturally occuring events. And the timing between one event and another is most often conicidental But, during these dark times, its easy to mistake what we see as some sinister, angry force at work.

When I see (and I hope I never do), American and/or NATO tanks deploying around Israel, then I might get disturbed. When I see the whole world rally against Israel, then I might worry about judgement. But, for now, I think I'll just walk down this little country road in the bright sunshine.

One other point: It serves no good purpose to cite examples from the Age of Law, to bolster a point during the Age of Grace. In other words, where in the NT do we find God destroying entire civilizations because of some suggestion someone made?