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Originally Posted by Socialite
I guess this post of you is listing verses UNRELATED to each other then...
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Here is what I actually said
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No, I didn't relate or connect two verses but terms and showed how the same term "catching souls" is used by Jesus to refer to something different and why we Christians use it.
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I never suggested the verse in proverbs was about fishing. It's a biblical term used for different purposes in both the NT and OT. Do you disagree?
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And my whole point is that the terms aren't the same. There's nothing Proverbs 11 has in common with Jesus' fishing analogies. Nothing.
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Again I never said nor hinted proverbs was about fishing, good grief.
Both verses are about catching men, I never said anything about fish.
While we are on it, I don't see anything in this verse that says it is not about proselytizing. Whether it is or isn't is irrelevant since the issue is the term and I think I've provided enough evidence and reason there is nothing wrong with using the term to refer to working in the spiritual harvest...it's biblical
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So why is Proverbs even in this discussion? And what "term" -- capturing? catching? I'm not seeing the commonality, Prax. And where are you getting this exegesis of Proverbs 11 referring to "catching souls" or "catching men?" Do you disagree this has more to do with having friends? Like I said, Carnegie's "Winning Friends and Influencing People" is a better or more accurate "term" comparison to Proverbs 11.
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I already explained why in a previous post. It was asked where the verse is used or if it was biblical.
ESV
Pro 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, and whoever captures souls is wise.
And the NET bible commentary
The MT reads חָכָם (khakham, "wise") and seems to refer to capturing (לָקַח, laqakh; "to lay hold of; to seize; to capture") people with influential ideas (e.g., 2Sa_15:6).
to Capture people.
Now again to our verse in Luke
Luk 5:10 and so also were James and John, sons of Zebedee, who were partners with Simon. And Jesus said to Simon, "Do not be afraid; from now on you will be
catching men."
A list of Thayer definitions gives
Thayer Definition:
1) to take alive
2) to take,
catch, capture
Strongs
to take alive (make a prisoner of war), that is, (figuratively) to capture or ensnare: - take captive, catch.
I don't think Jesus literally meant going out with spears and swords and taking prisoners. He was speaking spiritually about catching souls or winning souls.
Again, it's a biblical term, how it's used in proverbs I can see different commentators have different ideas, but it seems to me the NT use Christ has in mind preaching the gospel to the lost souls and leading them to Christ. That is and was and still is the point. It's a biblical term and idea even if it's not used in terms of evangelism to Christ in proverbs.
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Argument #1: Proverbs 11 should not even be used in the context of this discussion. It's irrelevant and has nothing to do with souls or so-called "soul winning."
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It has everything to do to show how the term is used and to show it is used in the NT.
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Argument #2: "Soul winning" isn't a biblical expression. "That I may win some" by Paul, I've commented on already (prior to you bringing it up). I also admit a little unclarity by exactly Paul means.
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Yes it is. "Win some" What? scooby snacks? He's talking about winning souls, people.
Here is the context
1Co 9:16
For if I preach the gospel, that gives me no ground for boasting. For necessity is laid upon me. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!
1Co 9:17 For if I do this of my own will, I have a reward, but not of my own will, I am still entrusted with a stewardship.
1Co 9:18 What then is my reward?
That in my preaching I may present the gospel free of charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.
1Co 9:19 For though I am free from all,
I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them.
1Co 9:20
To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews.
To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.
1Co 9:21
To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
1Co 9:22
To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.
1Co 9:23 I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.
We have 2 issues. Etymology and Idea. I think it is clear etymologically the phrase "win souls" is associated with the phrase "catch" or "capture" souls.
Of verse 19 the NET commentary again says
8 tn Or "more converts." The word "people" is not in the Greek text, but is implied. It has been supplied in the translation to clarify the meaning.
Paul here seems to have the idea of being persuasive by becoming one with his audience.
And as I said before, "soul winning" from the verse in proverbs, is being applied IN A SPIRITUAL SENSE TODAY. Just like other metaphors might, like the church being an army does not mean we take verse from the OT and claim the are speaking of a spiritual church application.
So we have
Etymology, it means to catch or capture people
Use, in the NT with regards to leading people to Christ
And so, today, Christians use the same term in a spiritual sense.
That covers, where is it in the bible. Where is the idea in the bible and how the term "soul winning" is being used.
Finally, I see no reason or argument for why someone can't use it to refer to evangelizing today. However one thinks it is used in proverbs was beside the point I was making of etymology.
So, people, feel free to refer to the act of working in the harvest as soul winning. You are not violating any law or principle
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