Twitter-TF Tenney at Jentezn Franklin's 2morrow!

[Jeffrey]

Also not plagiarism are ideas/concepts/quotes that are so popular, it is generally assumed people understand their origin, or at least are familiar.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Sam

Reckon TFT got permission from a local UPC minister before preaching for a non-UPC minister in his town?

surely

[POWERUP]

For those who are a little curious...................Madonna Massey is Madonna Mcfall. She
and her three brothers and parents were the Singing Mcfalls.

Elder Mcfall wrote "Thank God I Am Free"

Elder Mcfall passed away about a year ago. He pastored in MS. His son Daniel now pastors the church.

Madonna and her husband Glen Massey pastor a great church in Lake Charles, LA

She can sho nuff rock the house!!!!!

[DAII]

Things are a'changin' for sure ... TFT has been preaching with his son as well on the foreign missions field .... I believe he did so recently in Venezuela ...

I wonder what the UPCI nationals and missionaries thought?

I know Anthony Mangun has been preaching at some pretty liberal UPCI churches as well .... as of late here in Texas... I think we'd have to include his SIL as well in the mix.

[n david]

1) There are no original messages anymore. Nothing new is under the sun. Every message preached is gleaned and uses bits of scripture, messages from other ministers and excerpts from books.

The comment about UPC preachers using TD Jakes is true. I remember years ago there was a rumor going around that Rod Parsley had a library of messages he used that were preached by Jeff Arnold.

I don't know if that was true, but I do know there are some ministers out there who offer outlines and message notes and I do remember seeing messages by Jeff Arnold available.

2) I heard a message by Anthony Mangun called, "Take off the Coat" or something to that effect ... later I bought a dvd of JF called "The Coat of Sin." Both, with exception of the title, were the same exact message. Not word for word, but very close.

Was I upset, or should I be upset about that? No. That's between JF and God. I like JF, I think he's one of the better one's on TV. I'm glad he considers TFT his pastor and role model. I'm glad he's met the Manguns and Vesta has prayed for him.

Whether a minister uses another ministers sermon and doesn't credit that minister doesn't bother me. It's on that minister. If I use a quote or excerpt I'll credit the author or person who made the quote or wrote what I used. However, I've used a thought or idea of a message by another minister and expanded on it in other ways and didn't mention credit because while it was a thought or idea received from another message, it wasn't a duplicate of that message. I added enough and changed enough in it to make it different.

By the way, I know every single minister has - at least once in their ministry - used another ministers message. It happens. And if they're honest, they'd admit it.

One of my first messages was a transcribed word for word message from David Fuller. I was 16 or 17. I loved the message, it grabbed me by the collar and shook me so I felt it was what I needed to share. Of course, David Fuller was an incredible minister who loved words ... big, beautiful words. I stumbled and bumbled over it, but God knew my heart and blessed. I never gave credit from the pulpit, but people in my church knew it wasn't original. But they responded and appreciated the message.

A mentor of mine had me come to his church to preach. After the service we had a long talk. He told me he was disappointed because he had asked me to come preach and what he saw wasn't me but was me trying to imitate another well-known minister. Said I would never reach the potential God had for me if I settled for being an imitation.

Best talk I've had.

[n david]

PASTOR FRANKLIN WELCOMES T.F. TENNEY
AND SPECIAL VOCAL GUEST MADONNA MASSEY!
Ms. Massey will be singing Pastor Franklin's new favorite song, "Down From His Glory."
Join us for a power-packed service you will not want to miss!
Wednesday, April 21st - 7:00pm

I'm on the Free Chapel e-mailing list... got this today.

Cool!

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

"Everything that is taught" meaning ideas/concepts, or word-for-word outline sermons and paragraph quotes?

I think that it is funny that you keep using the word-for-word thing....I have no idead what to say about that. If it is word for word I would say that is shaky but whatever. I am sure that accusations of using word-for-word oulines have been made about preachers before. I think that would be hard to prove one way or another. I still think that if someone gets upset about another person using or copying their message in wholly that they are just totally insecure. Even if the Mr. Original gets up set they need to let it go but they might not because of their insecurities. Does u understand what I am saying?

[tv1a]

Does anyone have a problem with the sermon notes websites? Especially the ones which charge money? Is the UPCI Publishing house still publishing outdate sunday school literature that no one finds relevant, or at best 3-5 years behind?

Originally Posted by n david

1) There are no original messages anymore. Nothing new is under the sun. Every message preached is gleaned and uses bits of scripture, messages from other ministers and excerpts from books.

The comment about UPC preachers using TD Jakes is true. I remember years ago there was a rumor going around that Rod Parsley had a library of messages he used that were preached by Jeff Arnold.

I don't know if that was true, but I do know there are some ministers out there who offer outlines and message notes and I do remember seeing messages by Jeff Arnold available.

2) I heard a message by Anthony Mangun called, "Take off the Coat" or something to that effect ... later I bought a dvd of JF called "The Coat of Sin." Both, with exception of the title, were the same exact message. Not word for word, but very close.

Was I upset, or should I be upset about that? No. That's between JF and God. I like JF, I think he's one of the better one's on TV. I'm glad he considers TFT his pastor and role model. I'm glad he's met the Manguns and Vesta has prayed for him.

Whether a minister uses another ministers sermon and doesn't credit that minister doesn't bother me. It's on that minister. If I use a quote or excerpt I'll credit the author or person who made the quote or wrote what I used. However, I've used a thought or idea of a message by another minister and expanded on it in other ways and didn't mention credit because while it was a thought or idea received from another message, it wasn't a duplicate of that message. I added enough and changed enough in it to make it different.

By the way, I know every single minister has - at least once in their ministry - used another ministers message. It happens. And if they're honest, they'd admit it.

One of my first messages was a transcribed word for word message from David Fuller. I was 16 or 17. I loved the message, it grabbed me by the collar and shook me so I felt it was what I needed to share. Of course, David Fuller was an incredible minister who loved words ... big, beautiful words. I stumbled and bumbled over it, but God knew my heart and blessed. I never gave credit from the pulpit, but people in my church knew it wasn't original. But they responded and appreciated the message.

A mentor of mine had me come to his church to preach. After the service we had a long talk. He told me he was disappointed because he had asked me to come preach and what he saw wasn't me but was me trying to imitate another well-known minister. Said I would never reach the potential God had for me if I settled for being an imitation.

Best talk I've had.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Does anyone have a problem with the sermon notes websites? Especially the ones which charge money? Is the UPCI Publishing house still publishing outdate sunday school literature that no one finds relevant, or at best 3-5 years behind?

Most of the literature I've seen is based on basic Bible stories, and usually strives to bring out a basic doctrine or principle--how are those irrelevant or behind?

I will agree that teachers who just read out of the literature are usually pretty boring--but that's not really "teaching" anyway. (JMO!)

Still, they're good guides for teachers who don't have a lot of creative juices, and great for pastors who want to know what's being taught in the classroom. We're required to leave our books at home on Wednesday nights, so teaching in our own words is a requirement. However, the basic content remains dependable and consistent. I definitely don't see a problem with that.

A good teacher makes a topic come alive. If class is boring, it's probably because the teacher is boring.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by n david

1) There are no original messages anymore. Nothing new is under the sun. Every message preached is gleaned and uses bits of scripture, messages from other ministers and excerpts from books.

The comment about UPC preachers using TD Jakes is true. I remember years ago there was a rumor going around that Rod Parsley had a library of messages he used that were preached by Jeff Arnold.

I don't know if that was true, but I do know there are some ministers out there who offer outlines and message notes and I do remember seeing messages by Jeff Arnold available.

2) I heard a message by Anthony Mangun called, "Take off the Coat" or something to that effect ... later I bought a dvd of JF called "The Coat of Sin." Both, with exception of the title, were the same exact message. Not word for word, but very close.

Was I upset, or should I be upset about that? No. That's between JF and God. I like JF, I think he's one of the better one's on TV. I'm glad he considers TFT his pastor and role model. I'm glad he's met the Manguns and Vesta has prayed for him.

Whether a minister uses another ministers sermon and doesn't credit that minister doesn't bother me. It's on that minister. If I use a quote or excerpt I'll credit the author or person who made the quote or wrote what I used. However, I've used a thought or idea of a message by another minister and expanded on it in other ways and didn't mention credit because while it was a thought or idea received from another message, it wasn't a duplicate of that message. I added enough and changed enough in it to make it different.

By the way, I know every single minister has - at least once in their ministry - used another ministers message. It happens. And if they're honest, they'd admit it.

One of my first messages was a transcribed word for word message from David Fuller. I was 16 or 17. I loved the message, it grabbed me by the collar and shook me so I felt it was what I needed to share. Of course, David Fuller was an incredible minister who loved words ... big, beautiful words. I stumbled and bumbled over it, but God knew my heart and blessed. I never gave credit from the pulpit, but people in my church knew it wasn't original. But they responded and appreciated the message.

A mentor of mine had me come to his church to preach. After the service we had a long talk. He told me he was disappointed because he had asked me to come preach and what he saw wasn't me but was me trying to imitate another well-known minister. Said I would never reach the potential God had for me if I settled for being an imitation.

Best talk I've had.

Was the David Fuller message titled "Born and Bred in the Briar Patch"? I preached that one!