Your answer to illegal immigration.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by coadie

Lot of hate in the world.

Grace is a forgotten term.

He will get as much mercy as he gives.

Which of the 10 commandments are illegals breaking?

Their existence is sin.

There is forgiveness for sin, but one has to admit that it is sin.


The whole idea of repentance is turning away from sin.


How can the Holy Ghost filled illegal immigrant turn away from the sin of being an illegal immigrant?

Seek to become a legal resident or even a naturalized citizen.


For a saved person to sin and to continue to sin as if it is not sin is not the kind of liberty that the Gospel calls us to.

Even still, God forgives. Eventually, true repentance will manifest itself in the actions of the saved illegal immigrant. I am living proof of the concept I am speaking of, though I am not an illegal immigrant.

[oletime]

Originally Posted by coadie

Lot of hate in the world.

Grace is a forgotten term.

He will get as much mercy as he gives.

Which of the 10 commandments are illegals breaking?

coadie , the voice of reason wow! the trumpet must be about to sound

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by oletime

coadie , the voice of reason wow! the trumpet must be about to sound

Maybe if there was life imprisonment for being an illegal immigrant then we might have to convict a few thousand illegal immigrants before the rest started headin for the border. Then in a few years we could release most all of them back to mexico as a show of mercy. Then any of those that were brave enough to try to come again, convict them and they could be the examples for the rest.

[MissBrattified]

Well, mark it down, because I'm going to agree with Aquila. I am really tired of Christians avoiding Christian principles when it comes to politics.

The scriptures from the OT regarding how strangers in the land were treated are very GOOD principles. My ancestors came here uninvited and many of them unwelcome. That applies to most of you, who aren't of native American Indian descent. So you condemn your own ancestors with your views. Closing out immigrants would not only go against Christian values, but the values this country was founded on.

I DO believe the system should be tightened up so those entering are regulated to minimized threats to society, but I don't appreciate statements that involve killing people just for trying to find a better life. That's sick.

And are any of you aware that we have missionaries who enter other countries secretly or go there under false pretenses? Would you apply the same thoughts to them?

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Their existence is sin.

There is forgiveness for sin, but one has to admit that it is sin.


The whole idea of repentance is turning away from sin.


How can the Holy Ghost filled illegal immigrant turn away from the sin of being an illegal immigrant?

Seek to become a legal resident or even a naturalized citizen.

I agree they should be encouraged to comply with the law. I do NOT agree that they deserve the full force of the military to kick them out of the country.

I also don't agree that they are living in sin simply because they entered the country without permission from the government. What if they were fleeing for their lives? What about Jews who fled Germany to other countries to escape the gas chamber? Were they sinning by being smuggled into other countries?

[simplyme]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Well, mark it down, because I'm going to agree with Aquila. I am really tired of Christians avoiding Christian principles when it comes to politics.

The scriptures from the OT regarding how strangers in the land were treated are very GOOD principles. My ancestors came here uninvited and many of them unwelcome. That applies to most of you, who aren't of native American Indian descent. So you condemn your own ancestors with your views. Closing out immigrants would not only go against Christian values, but the values this country was founded on.

I DO believe the system should be tightened up so those entering are regulated to minimized threats to society, but I don't appreciate statements that involve killing people just for trying to find a better life.
ME NEITHER! That's sick.

And are any of you aware that we have missionaries who enter other countries secretly or go there under false pretenses? Would you apply the same thoughts to them?

WAIT A 2ND. YOU have mentioned that you dislike Christians ignoring Christian principles, but isn't obeying the laws of the land, a BIBLE principle?

I believe that another country should be responsible for its own citizens (another aspect).,AND if they are not, perhaps they should be made to be responsible or repay this country in some manner, maybe help to defray the costs that this nation is incurring, (depleting resources that should be reserved for citizens)

Isn't missionaries entering other countries under FALSE assumptions, to spread the gospel, breaking 'the laws of the land' (theirs) as well? Should the REASONing that one uses FALSE means to enter into a country, make all the difference in whether someone is to be held responsible for obeying whatever laws of the land they happen to be in? Many missionaries have constantly endangered themselves for spreading the gospeL and this is to be commended, so I've often heard., some even become martyrs.

i AM AWARE that the LORD has commissioned us to spread his gospel in all lands, but I am not sure that it is acting christian like to use FALSE means to enter., endangering their very lives.
I AM glad though that most DO get permission to enter for religious purposes.

The 'values that this country was founded upon' have LONG disappeared., and I don't know about YOUR ancestors but mine came here thru Mexico and eventually into the U.S. with visas (so we have been told) :shrug:

I know many of my former church mbrs whom are here illegally, several have obtained citizenry legally at least; BUT I have often had mixed feelings about that whole issue.

I have NEVER approved of it., really although I love my sisters/brothers and am glad that we are family., the majority are all decent folks.
BUT -
Breaking the law is BREAKING THE LAW! And the Bible, IMHO ,considers it wrong, as well as NOT helping them, yikes! It CAN get complicated.
*sigh* I do pray for those whom are seeking a better life., I pray that they find JESUS and He will help them more than any of us ever could.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by simplyme

WAIT A 2ND. YOU have mentioned that you dislike Christians ignoring Christian principles, but isn't obeying the laws of the land, a BIBLE principle?

Yes, it is, and I believe illegal immigrants who are converted should be encouraged to comply with laws, even if that means they have to go back home--unless there are extenuating circumstances of some sort that make it impossible, or inhumane.

I believe that another country should be responsible for its own citizens (another aspect).,AND if they are not, perhaps they should be made to be responsible or repay this country in some manner, maybe help to defray the costs that this nation is incurring, (depleting resources that should be reserved for citizens)

Isn't missionaries entering other countries under FALSE assumptions, to spread the gospel, breaking 'the laws of the land' (theirs) as well? Should the REASONing that one uses FALSE means to enter into a country, make all the difference in whether someone is to be held responsible for obeying whatever laws of the land they happen to be in? Many missionaries have constantly endangered themselves for spreading the gospeL and this is to be commended, so I've often heard., some even become martyrs.

i AM AWARE that the LORD has commissioned us to spread his gospel in all lands, but I am not sure that it is acting christian like to use FALSE means to enter., endangering their very lives.
I AM glad though that most DO get permission to enter for religious purposes.

The apostles preached the gospel in places where it was forbidden, where they certainly didn't have permission, and entered (or exited) secretly in some places. I do think the comparison is a bit off, since one is a self-centered motive, and the latter is in obedience to God.

The 'values that this country was founded upon' have LONG disappeared., and I don't know about YOUR ancestors but mine came here thru Mexico and eventually into the U.S. with visas (so we have been told) :shrug:

Mine may go back a bit further, to Frenchmen, Irish and Germans. Some came legally, some came before there were any real laws preventing it, and some came smuggled on boats.

Whether those values are still upheld or not by the majority doesn't mean we should disregard them personally.

I know many of my former church mbrs whom are here illegally, several have obtained citizenry legally at least; BUT I have often had mixed feelings about that whole issue.

I have NEVER approved of it., really although I love my sisters/brothers and am glad that we are family., the majority are all decent folks.
BUT -
Breaking the law is BREAKING THE LAW! And the Bible, IMHO ,considers it wrong, as well as NOT helping them, yikes! It CAN get complicated.
*sigh* I do pray for those whom are seeking a better life., I pray that they find JESUS and He will help them more than any of us ever could.

I agree that believers should try to obey the laws of the land to the best of their ability. That will be a hard pill to swallow for those who may face immediate consequences. I don't think it's fair, though, to say they're living in sin if they don't turn themselves in.

I realize that it's a sensitive issue, but because there are so many believers who are also in the country illegally, Christians should be careful how they treat (and talk about) other children of God. Talking about shooting them is not okay. I'm alright with some basic accountability and compliance with laws, but military or lethal force? Ridiculous.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I agree that believers should try to obey the laws of the land to the best of their ability. That will be a hard pill to swallow for those who may face immediate consequences. I don't think it's fair, though, to say they're living in sin if they don't turn themselves in.

I realize that it's a sensitive issue, but because there are so many believers who are also in the country illegally, Christians should be careful how they treat (and talk about) other children of God. Talking about shooting them is not okay. I'm alright with some basic accountability and compliance with laws, but military or lethal force? Ridiculous.

But you gotta admit that if we were to show we were serious and started giving out really strict punishments, not lethal of course (though they would have the same effect alot faster) then there would be alot less illegal immigrants here.

Maybe the biggest issue is not with illegal immigrants but with American citizens not reporting them when they do know.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by jfrog

But you gotta admit that if we were to show we were serious and started giving out really strict punishments, not lethal of course (though they would have the same effect alot faster) then there would be alot less illegal immigrants here.

Maybe the biggest issue is not with illegal immigrants but with American citizens not reporting them when they do know.

I'm sorry, but I don't think I could bring myself to turn someone in just because they're here. They'd have to pose some immediate threat. I guess that's wrong, but I just couldn't do it. Especially if they had dependents who would be hurt by such an action. I wouldn't be afraid to tell them that I think they should comply with the laws, but I'm not going to be the one to call the cops.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I'm sorry, but I don't think I could bring myself to turn someone in just because they're here. They'd have to pose some immediate threat. I guess that's wrong, but I just couldn't do it. Especially if they had dependents who would be hurt by such an action. I wouldn't be afraid to tell them that I think they should comply with the laws, but I'm not going to be the one to call the cops.

I don't know what I would do in that case. There are alot of value judgements that can be made in such a case. I think the more personal you get or know about anyone, the more reason you will have not to call the cops on them.

Would you even say illegal immigration is a problem? If so how do you think it should be solved? Doing the same ole same ole obviously isn't working too good if it's a problem.