Local Church BODY

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Timmy

But seriously. You really think that scripture is saying that I need a preacher to help me with my list? That I can't get it from the Bible for myself? I can't work out my own salvation with fear and trembling? That all scripture is not profitable for doctrine etc., unless a preacher explains it to me?

Your suggestion to read the Bible is a good one. A little self-contradictory (what good would it do, if I need a preacher to tell me what to believe?), but good.

BTW, just for the record, I do have a preacher in my life. Must not be a very good one, though. He doesn't say anything about most of the items on the list I gave above. I guess my blood will be on his hands!

Exactly. Just chuck your Bible right out the nearest window because one of the higher ups has to tell you about it for it to count with God.


I am having entirely too much fun tonight!

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Good point. And when I read the Epistles, those preachers are in my life. Thanks, I feel better now.

Good one!

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by Timmy

But seriously. You really think that scripture is saying that I need a preacher to help me with my list? That I can't get it from the Bible for myself? I can't work out my own salvation with fear and trembling? That all scripture is not profitable for doctrine etc., unless a preacher explains it to me?

Your suggestion to read the Bible is a good one. A little self-contradictory (what good would it do, if I need a preacher to tell me what to believe?), but good.

BTW, just for the record, I do have a preacher in my life. Must not be a very good one, though. He doesn't say anything about most of the items on the list I gave above. I guess my blood will be on his hands!

If the preacher is not preaching Acts 2:38 as the way of salvation, or the necessity of Jesus name baptism, or living holy and right before God, then he is a false and lying preacher. If he preaches the trinity, he is a false and lying preacher. If he says you do not need a preacher, that you can understand and need no authority to help you learn and mature, then he is a false and lying preacher.

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! (Romans 10:14-15)

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Sherri

I guess I just have a good pastor and good church so it's hard for me to understand those who don't. I've been blessed!
By the way, I was thinking of you today. I miss talking to you!! Hope you're doing well!

I miss you too!

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

By this logic, if I have a copy of the Constitution I can proclaim myself president of the United States... if you claim that the Bible is your "letter of marque", then can you tell me what page it lists your name specifically? This shouldn't be too much to ask, because otherwise any of the 7 billion people on this planet could present the same proof that they represent God and are acting on his authority.

You guys are putting the cart before the horse, you claim all of this authority, yet other than the fact that you believe God has placed you in this position, you have no proof.

I would agree with you SD, but it just might ruin my reputation forever

Seriously...this is an excellent point.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Rico

Exactly. The part people seem to conveniently forget is that NO ONE CAN DO EVERYTHING THE BIBLE SAYS TO DO. If it were possible for anyone to do everything the Bible says to do then there would have been no reason whatsoever for Jesus to have to come to Earth in the first place. The minute anyone makes the focus of their walk with God a matter of following rules then salvation stops being by grace and starts being by works, thereby nullifying everything Jesus did on Calvary. This is what annoys me so much about dealing with church people. The high and mighty ones forget that we are all in the same boat, depending on God's grace and mercy.

Originally Posted by Rico

Sister, you are wasting you time. If you don't bow down to them you are lost and headed straight for hell.

I am reading an excellent book right now called "Messy Spirituality" by Mike Yaconelli, here is a quote from the chapter I read this morning:

"It is the nature of human beings, the nature of modern life, to silence those who interrupt our routine activities and understandings. We don't like those who speak up, who leave the status quo, who refuse to keep quiet, who reject compliance as a way of life. We would much rather have people shut up than say distrubing things about genuine faith."

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I would agree with you SD, but it just might ruin my reputation forever

Seriously...this is an excellent point.

The Church is the body of Christ.

As far as I know, you, Michelle, still believe that the New Birth (John 3:5, Acts 2:38) is the entrance into the Body of Christ.

If you do, then I would say that you believe other things the Scripture says about the Body of Christ.

As for the qualification of ministers, when a man's ministry is acknowledged and recognized by the Body, it does give some basis for credibility.

Are there mistakes? Of course, because humanity is involved.

But there is a cumulative wisdom in Christ's Body, and over time, the charlatans and fakes generally get found out and expelled. There is a process that takes place.

The Church is the Body of Christ in the earth.

If a person rejects the ministry and wisdom and fellowship of Christ's Body, in effect they are rejecting Him, because He has so ordered and set in motion this means for the propagation of the Gospel and the perfecting of the saints.

Michelle, I just have a question for you, not intended to be insulting or to pry...but how has your prayer life been lately?

This I ask out of sincere concern.

How has your prayer life been lately?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

The Church is the body of Christ.

As far as I know, you, Michelle, still believe that the New Birth (John 3:5, Acts 2:38) is the entrance into the Body of Christ.

If you do, then I would say that you believe other things the Scripture says about the Body of Christ.

As for the qualification of ministers, when a man's ministry is acknowledged and recognized by the Body, it does give some basis for credibility.

Are there mistakes? Of course, because humanity is involved.

But there is a cumulative wisdom in Christ's Body, and over time, the charlatans and fakes generally get found out and expelled. There is a process that takes place.

The Church is the Body of Christ in the earth.

If a person rejects the ministry and wisdom and fellowship of Christ's Body, in effect they are rejecting Him, because He has so ordered and set in motion this means for the propagation of the Gospel and the perfecting of the saints.

Michelle, I just have a question for you, not intended to be insulting or to pry...but how has your prayer life been lately?

This I ask out of sincere concern.

How has your prayer life been lately?

Good. I would say more but for right now I will hold my peace. Really I have said enough. Any preacher has dealt with the Tribe of Roamers throughout their ministry and they are so predictable and the end for them and their families are so sad, but a preacher can't help anyone who does not want any help.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

If the preacher is not preaching Acts 2:38 as the way of salvation, or the necessity of Jesus name baptism, or living holy and right before God, then he is a false and lying preacher. If he preaches the trinity, he is a false and lying preacher. If he says you do not need a preacher, that you can understand and need no authority to help you learn and mature, then he is a false and lying preacher.

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! (Romans 10:14-15)

Well, I do have a dilemma, then. I'm incapable of reading and understanding the Bible for myself (as I've learned here), so I must depend on a preacher to tell me what it says. Yet, I must be sure to choose a preacher that is not false and lying. You have given me a list of qualifications, and I thank you, but someone else's list may, of course, be very different. I have no reason to doubt your sincerity, and your list may very well be perfect, but I really have no way of knowing.

Someone else's list may include such things as "a preacher who doesn't preach the trinity is a false and lying preacher". Again, I (who cannot read and understand the Bible, as I've proven, e.g., over in Deep Waters!) have no basis for accepting or rejecting that guy's list, or yours, or anyone else's.

[Steve Epley]

Don't you guys worry pastors are typed as shepherds and they lead SHEEP they are not herders. SHEEP follow others animals are driven and some can't not hardly be driven at all. So if you don't follow anyone then it depicts what you are not.