Yeah? Well get this. If I were in Saudi Arabia I would be very unsafe for practicing my religion openly...
Yeah well get this. In the US it is unsafe for Muslims to practice religion openly. Religious persecution takes many path, but it is still persecution no matter how shiny the wrapping.
There are Mosques everywhere in America. They have freedom of religion. They can have a mosque on every corner. Can you say the same for non-Islamic religions in Saudi Arabia? How many open churches exist there?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Eloah and Allah most assuredly are INTENDED to be the same reference to the same, original, single God that both Abraham and indeed Jesus himself called on by name or term or whatever what one wants to call it when they prayed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
In Hebrew His personal name is Yahweh. In Hebrew the word for God is Elohim or Eloah or El. Eli means "My God"
I will re-post, and will be the first in line to state that Islam specifically and in the Quran forbids persecution of both Christians and Jews for their beliefs. I was asked earlier about Muslim nations and answered honestly from what I know.
Sharia law is pretty simple. Some givenments add all kinds of stuff to it and make it opressive. The Mideast is a mix. Egypt, Lebanon, UAE, and Bahrain legal systems have Sharia basis yet are tolerant of other faiths. KSA and others are not. KSA is especially bad about oppression of women. They forget (and believe me when I say I remind Saudis of this) that Mohammed's wife was a businesswoman who travelled and did business all over the middle east. They hate that reminder (laughing) because Islam specifically teaches that a wife's property and business is hers and only hers and that they have the right to manage their own business. Preventing such is against the Quran AND the teachings of Mohammed (they hate to hear that but never contend that is incorrect either).
Sharia law, as spelled out, is not oppressive and was never intended to be opressive. Certainly throughout time oppressive legal systems are by no means limited to those who misuse Sharia law either. It boils down to this as what I have observed in the world: Bad leaders form bad governments who create opressive conditions for the people who then have to live under their control.
Can you explain this quote from the Quran?
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden that which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Thank you
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Eloah and Allah most assuredly are INTENDED to be the same reference to the same, original, single God that both Abraham and indeed Jesus himself called on by name or term or whatever what one wants to call it when they prayed.
Every language has a word for God. That does not mean it is the same God. Eloah and Elohim were being used by heathens for their false gods before at the same time the Hebrews were using it. Dagon, the fish god of the Philistines is called Elohim
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
As they do in Jakarta (churches/mosques on every corner). Before you start googling there are probably examples of hate crimes in Jakarta and certainly the government there has executed extremists for these actions. In fact, I was in Jakarta in Oct, 2007. While I was there the Indonesian paramilitary police caught a couple of radical extremists holed up in a house and eliminated them with admirable dispatch.
How many combinations of words will indicate to you that I have clearly stated specific countries that I know of where Islamic law is specifically mis-applied to the persecution of both Christians and Jews and that this mis-application is wrong and contrary to the specific teachings of Islam aka the misuse of Sharia law to oppress? I am not a Saudi. I do not propose to speak for the Saudis or their rules or their government. I am a Texan and a Muslim. As such, and based on my personal studies and what I have been taught and read, this persecution is prohibited in Islam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
There are Mosques everywhere in America. They have freedom of religion. They can have a mosque on every corner. Can you say the same for non-Islamic religions in Saudi Arabia? How many open churches exist there?
Last edited by Walks_in_islam; 04-17-2009 at 02:53 AM.
Reason: error in grammer..
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day
Do you actually need me to explain this?
BTW can you explain these quotes from the Bible?
Whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him
If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die
If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die.
If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... stone them with stones, till they die.
If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die.
A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them
They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses
Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
Can you explain this quote from the Quran?
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden that which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
good enough, although i know you jest, you are obviously allowed to believe what you want, but what i stated is my belief, only Jesus, dt
"Allowed" is the key word. According to those of your faith, if I take that option (as allowed), I will burn forever in hell. (OK, most of you guys! Sorry, CrakJack! )
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