Loren Yadon's: Tragedies of War????

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Played with by a demonic spirit??? Literally???

Now this tells me all I need to know ... about continuing any discourse with you.

You continue to play martyr and continue to use aspersions like wolf in sheeps clothing and demonically influenced to marginalize ....

Shameful and degrading ... and rooted in BITTERNESS over a thread that "you got over".

You're playing like a politician, Daniel! You call 3-steppers heretical, which as Mizpeh said is just as divisive. A "spirit" of divisiveness doesn't have to be attributed to a demonic spirit, solely. It is, in more cases than not, a human trait and agenda induced.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

You're playing like a politician, Daniel! You call 3-steppers heretical, which as Mizpeh said is just as divisive. A "spirit" of divisiveness doesn't have to be attributed to a demonic spirit, solely. It is, in more cases than not, a human trait and agenda induced.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXxx ... try again ... I called her doctrine of repentance + baptism = forgiveness as heretical ... which she brings up as part of her agenda not to be viewed as espousing anything heretical on this forum from time to time ...

as a victim of the big, bad wolf .... a direct aspersion ... she's made of myself ...

including now through her ability to peek in men's hearts as to whether they are being "played by demons" and declare it as so.

BTW, this is a doctrine of which most 3 steppers, like yourself, disagree with ... even Steve Epley who believes sins are forgiven at baptism and sins remitted at baptism ...

See this thread: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentance

You might have jumped the gun, in stepping into this one.

I agree with your latter statement, also.

The point made here ... I hope ... despite the ravenous noise ... is Mizpeh and I can fellowship folks with lesser truths ... but the men that disfellowship LY ... can't. Even those that have followed the salvation template that is Mizpeh's litmus test.

Although not sure Mizzy thinks Trinnies are saved as she spends a lot her time trying to convert them.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXxx ... try again ... I called her doctrine of repentance + baptism as heretical ... which she brings up on this forum from time to time ...

A doctrine of which most 3 steppers disagree with ... even Steve Epley who believes sins are forgiven at baptism and sins remitted at baptism ...

You might have jumped the gun, in stepping into this one.

I agree with your latter statement, also.

If her doctrine is heretical, than that, by implication, makes her a heretic. It's like a 2 + 2 = 4 question! LOL!

I didn't jump the gun stepping into this one, Daniel.

I don't have time to read your link right now. I'll check it out later.

[Theophil]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

The political pressures ... regardless of the "final straw" came from the AS and then the subsequent "suicide" sermon that resulted in KH's colleagues putting inordinate pressure on him to act .... there were letters, calls for his resignation , THREATS TO PULL OUT OF CLC... by ministerial colleagues. A bloodthirst for DISFELLOWSHIP.

This culture is steeped in group dynamics and peer pressure ... it dictates so much that is done and not done.

To pretend the firing happened in a box ... is definitely damage control.

Everyone will have a different twist what brought it down ... but it was the divisiveness of the era that made this happen ... and a dishonoring of a gentlemen's agreement made in 1945.

A lot of truth to this ... not. perhaps all truth, but a lot, nevertheless.

[Theophil]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

...Your doctrine by definition disfellowships most of the Body ... add standards and that pretty much ... makes you, a backslidden Apostolic sympathizer.

Deal w/ the facts. Not aspersions ....

Signed ... NOT THE WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING ...

This is over the line and uncalled for. I am surprised at you Dan. Please apologize, by pm to the injured party.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Played with by a demonic spirit??? Literally???

Dan, imo, you are being led, influenced, by a spirit who wants to cause division. You are not trying to bring the body of Christ together (that was the purpose of the merger) but split it apart even more. That's the way I see it and it isn't that hard to see. You're intents may be pure but what will become of all this (calling three steppers HERETICS) is not of God. Our God is a God of love, peace, humility etc. Where are the fruits of the Spirit displayed in what you are doing? James 3:13-18

You continue to play martyr and continue to use aspersions like wolf in sheeps clothing and demonically influenced to marginalize

Dan, you know I didn't call you a wolf in sheep's clothing. I asked if you were a wolf in sheep's clothing in reponse to what Ed said:

Is this true, Dan? Are you a wolf in sheep's clothing?
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=116

Shameful and degrading ... and rooted in BITTERNESS over a thread that "you got over" yet reference incessantly.

I'm not bitter, Dan. I would have never brought up that thread if you hadn't accused me of avoiding a direct question (Mizpeh do you really believe in the heretical doctrine that sins are only forgiven after repentance + baptism?) and being a false witness in this post of yours:
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=151

You want hyper-spirtualize these discussions ... go ahead. Even if logic and decorum escape you.

Really? is calling someone a heretic a example of decorum?

I totally understand the love and emotionalism you have for your paradigm.

This isn't about my love for a paradigm which is a side issue as far as I'm concerned. Truly what we are talking about here is the wrong/evil that was perpetrated upon the PCI brethren back in 1992 and a backlash now which resembles the same spirit that was the root of what happened then...a spirit of division causing more discord in the body of Christ. There must be a better way, Dan.

I will consider your thoughts and ask you consider your root of bitterness ....

Dan, if you never answer my posts on that thread, it will not bother me because I'm not bitter towards you. And frankly, I know what I believe and why I believe it from the word of God. But it's the very principle of the initial post you made on that thread which continues on in your agenda of divisiveness. Here I'll save you the trouble, this is what you said:

Sniff ... sniff ... sniff ...

FALSE DOCTRINE ALERT!!!!

You stand with the Roman church on that one, Mizzy ...

Not even Bernard or most of the 3 step crowd has gone that haywire.

Do you agree w/ Mizpeh in her new-fangled 3 step doctrine that our sins are not forgiven at repentance?

I answered your accusations. You didn't respond. But can you see any signs of an attempt at unity in the wording of this post?

knowing that after being a former atheist and being faced with the facts and even the Word .... perhaps your paradigm that dates to last century has doctrinal flaws ..... can be impossible to reconcile in your own mind.

I wonder if your faith can stretch, Mizzy.

Dan, you spout off this stuff..."your paradigm that dates to the last century has doctrinal flaws" and "being a former atheist"...what in the world are you talking about. What do they have to do with each other?

I will be praying for you that God will show you what spirit you are of. God bless you in your walk with him and unite our hearts in love to do his will and honor the One who died for us.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

You're playing like a politician, Daniel! You call 3-steppers heretical, which as Mizpeh said is just as divisive. A "spirit" of divisiveness doesn't have to be attributed to a demonic spirit, solely. It is, in more cases than not, a human trait and agenda induced.

I didn't mean it as a trait or an attitude but just as I wrote it...a literal demonic spirit. And let me clarify...I'm not saying that Dan is possessed.

We wrestle not against flesh and blood....there are powers of darkness that seek to destroy the church and they haven't changed their tactics over the thousands of years since Adam and Eve sinned in the garden. There are spirits that cause division. 1 Cor 3:1-4, James 3:13-18

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Theophil

This is over the line and uncalled for. I am surprised at you Dan. Please apologize, by pm to the injured party.

Being called a heretic and backslider all in a week from a brother in the Lord, what next?

Thank you for the call to reconciliation. After all, that's what Christ came to do.

[Innocuous]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Innoc..... I said I was going to make the one comment and step away - but I will respond to your post.... I don't know why KH said that to you. I'm sure it played [I]some[I] part in the termination; but I really do believe - as one person said.... "LY shot himself in the foot". I personally think if he had followed that simple request, it would not have come down like it did. I could be wrong - I've been wrong before.

Perhaps you're correct, I hope so. Like you and Raven, I wish it had never happened. But, it did happen and LY paid the price while KH went on to political 'success', partially at LY's expense. That's shameful and ugly all the way around. Perhaps par for the course though considering the context and the times.

LY should not have done what he did at the college, true. However, as I understand it, this had been an issue going on for some time and they'd been working through it. Perhaps the end would have eventually been the same. It just seems mighty curious to me that they pulled the trigger on LY so quickly after all the political pressure brought to bear after 'the message' but tried to pin it on the college situation. Coincidence? I doubt it. I think KH used the college situtation as a cover for his true intent. I think he made an emotional decision and didn't think it through and in doing so really messed up. I could be wrong, but it's the only explanation I can come up with to explain what KH told me personally, face-to-face, when I questioned him directly about the situation.

Of course I have no way to prove it, these are my speculations. I cannot escape though the conversation I had and how it has colored my perspective on KH and this particular situation, and others, including one of my closest friends who was let go some time later for reasons that are, frankly, illegal. It seems in those days that some people in leadership could get away with all sorts of moral impropriety while others were thrown under the bus for political gain. My disgust, I hope, is apparent.

I was always told that I should be in the org and have a license for accountability's sake. But I didn't see that happening when aggregious things like this were going down. There is no accountability in that system, and there's a name for that kind of system.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Innocuous

Perhaps you're correct, I hope so. Like you and Raven, I wish it had never happened. But, it did happen and LY paid the price while KH went on to political 'success', partially at LY's expense. That's shameful and ugly all the way around. Perhaps par for the course though considering the context and the times...

I've seen much the same in my own experiences but with different names on different faces. The one thing they have in common is that "system."