New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentance

[Tyk]

I think salvation is less than 3 steps, and at the same time so much more than 3 steps.

I was going to explain this but it would be far to much typing for how busy I am today .

As someone said earlier, we make this to hard...

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

They realize that denying forgiveness of sins at repentance is problematic and makes no sense which is why I had to ask and ask and re-ask, (thus the comment "ok prosecutor") the same question. Instinctively they know that to say "yes your sins are forgiven at repentance" would be equal to saying one is saved, thus the continual dodging of the question.

I answered your question on the other thread. It would have been helpful if you had clarified if you were talking about a sinner or a saint seeking forgiveness.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Bro... you're justa nitpickin'. lol

If Oneness Pentecostalism isn't linked with historic Christianity....tell me....what Bible do you use? Was it translated by historic Christians? What about songs and music sung in church? Was much of it written by historic Christians? C'mon bro...the truth is the truth...but it's be a journey to get out from under much of the false doctrine of the Catholic Church.

I don't believe that Oneness Pentecostalism is a different religion than mainstream Christianity. I see mainstream Christianity as a Christianity bound by unbiblical traditions and misconceptions. I see Oneness Pentecostalism as being a Revival of Apostolic Christianity. We are the Revival that many reformers prayed for, worked for, and even gave their lives in the hopes of seeing.

We have a rich heritage going all the way back through Christian history through the dark ages all the way back to the Apostolic church of the Bible.

It might sound like I am nitpicking but the Gospel is so powerful that I can't stand to take anything away. By adding our steps to what Christ has done we are basically saying that it wasn't finished on the Cross.

I believe in repentance, baptism, holy spirit infilling, and all the other commands of the bible but these come after the new birth. I have to disagree with Bernard on his view of the new birth even though he tries his best to link it up with orthodox doctrine.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

He's not contradicting himself, Aquila ... He's contradicting an article of faith in his own organization.

The Articles of Faith....get real dude....it's not a creed. It's just a very general overview of accepted concepts in our fellowship. Some will put more emphasis on various concepts than others. You need to relax.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

It might sound like I am nitpicking but the Gospel is so powerful that I can't stand to take anything away. By adding our steps to what Christ has done we are basically saying that it wasn't finished on the Cross.

I believe in repentance, baptism, holy spirit infilling, and all the other commands of the bible but these come after the new birth. I have to disagree with Bernard on his view of the new birth even though he tries his best to link it up with orthodox doctrine.

I want you to answer this one question by stating one word.... either "Jesus" or "Man"....

Is the command to water baptize, and be water baptized, from Jesus or man?

(Matthew 28:19 KJV)
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(Mark 16:16-17 KJV)
(16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

(John 3:5 KJV)
(5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The Articles of Faith....get real dude....it's not a creed. It's just a very general overview of accepted concepts in our fellowship. Some will put more emphasis on various concepts than others. You need to relax.

Various articles in the AOF ... are to be affirmed every 2 years... the one on Fundamental doctrine ... which grammatically attributes remission only to water baptism (which Bernard disagrees w/ also) and holiness ....

So for most ministers ... the AOF ... at least part of it ... is a big deal ... see the last 15 years of UPCI history.

Just stating a fact ... Bernard does not agree with the article of faith in the UPCI on repentance.

He does not espouse this generally accepted concept among his peers on a basic New Birth "component".

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

"Water" is your interjection, Elder. I wouldn't make my assumption on that.

The reason for my assumption is:
Remission of sins are preached in Jesus Name. Luke 24:47
That was obeyed in baptism in Jesus Name. Acts 2:38

"In the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ" is good enough for me!!!!!

[Aquila]

I'll post this to the general readers....

I want you to answer this one question by stating one word.... either "Jesus" or "Man"....

Is the command to water baptize, and be water baptized, from Jesus or man?

(Matthew 28:19 KJV)
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(Mark 16:16-17 KJV)
(16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

(John 3:5 KJV)
(5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

[Steve Epley]

ONLY in baptism in Jesus Name are the sins of the pentitent remitted in the church age.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Aquila

My friend was smarter than you. Please dont' insult a man I prayed and fasted to help who isn't here to defend himself.

The man saw the truth in black and white in the King James Bible. But he couldn't let go and embrace it completely because he was raised in a Baptist home. He had been taught things that were wrong and just couldn't get beyond the things he was taught.

Jeesh....have a little mercy on a misguided soul will ya.

Like the rich young ruler who couldn't give all...he walked away and didn't obey the fulness of truth.

You missed my sarcasm. He is probably truly saved but searching for more. Your friend is no different than some of us who grew up in Oneness Pentecostalism. It is hard to question what we have always been taught. Yes, we can see it right there in black and white what it takes to be saved yet we are so scared it will undermine our traditions that we can allow ourselves to be freed by the power of the gospel.