This Shocked Me - JTS to allow gays

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Berkeley

Brother Blume,

great thoghts!! I have nothing to add. lol

Thanks, brother. What else can we say, when the bible says all of this?

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Thanks, brother. What else can we say, when the bible says all of this?

I think many see this truth, but because of tradition they refuse to accept it. When you have the basics right (salvation) it is hard to admit that you may be wrong in other areas. JMO.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Berkeley

I think many see this truth, but because of tradition they refuse to accept it. When you have the basics right (salvation) it is hard to admit that you may be wrong in other areas. JMO.

Oner man had a very insightful thought about dispensationalism. In light of the fact that there are no statements made by the Lord and apostles about a millennium, and about "seven dispensations" and a final one after the church age, and only one vision that has to be symbolic of the teachings they did give in the epistles and not something different like a millennium, ....such people would never come up with nor teach salvation doctrine in the way they derive their prophecy doctrines. That should say something.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by mfblume

such people would never come up with nor teach salvation doctrine in the way they derive their prophecy doctrines. That should say something.

Right. When people want current events to fit prophecy they will make one part fit, but the rest of the pieces don't match.

I have a question. How do you interpret IThessalonians 4:12-17 ??

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Berkeley

Right. When people want current events to fit prophecy they will make one part fit, but the rest of the pieces don't match.

I have a question. How do you interpret IThessalonians 4:12-17 ??

I agree with the futurists in this scripture. It is the future rapture of the church, correspondent to 1 Cor 15 where we read that not all will sleep (die and be buried in graves) but all will be changed, whether in graves or still alive, when the Lord comes.

1Co 15:51-54 KJV Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, (52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I agree with the futurists in this scripture. It is the future rapture of the church, correspondent to 1 Cor 15 where we read that not all will sleep (die and be buried in graves) but all will be changed, whether in graves or still alive, when the Lord comes.

Oh, right.. Partial.. lol. How do those who embrace Fulfilled Eschatology interpret this passage??

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Berkeley

Oh, right.. Partial.. lol.

Partial preterism implies partial futurism.

How do those who embrace Fulfilled Eschatology interpret this passage??

Well, to be honest with you, it is a wild thought full preterists have. I understand full preterism can also be called "MODERN Preterism", as opposed to "historical preterism" which is partial.

This scripture and their argument for it is one of the strongest reasons I think full preterism is a good thing taken much too far to the extent of ridiculous extremes. Some say this only refers to a catching up in joy and glee.

Others speak about the term "AIR" and ascertain what it refers to. One man wrote this:

...but what does the word "air" mean? Is it in our atmosphere or the air we breath? We can compare with other Scriptures in Eph 2:2: "And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience." The word "air" is an another word for heavenly or spiritual realm. Satan was always an opponent of the scheme of the redemption as we can see throughout the Bible. He was (but is no longer) the prince of the power of the air. In Rom. 16:20 Paul says that Satan would be crushed "shortly" (see Gen 3:15). Jesus now has taken over that sphere and rules in the "air" with the saints since the destruction of Jerusalem. If that is the same "air" where the saints were to meet and be gathered, then there is no necessity for us to believe that the rapture gathering and meeting was to be physical and visible either. It was accomplished when the faithful remnant of Jewish believers with the ingrafted Gentiles was transformed (and transferred) into Christ's new spiritual Israel (new covenant) when the old fleshly-based (old covenant) was taken away in AD 70. The "gathering together" is the heavenly places in Christ - the spiritual kingdom of God. Satan is no longer around here; he is now in the lake of fire.

However, the term HARPADZO used in 1 Thess 4 has been used in Acts 8 when Philip was CAUGHT AWAY and physically translated to another location after baptizing the Ethiopian eunuch. It is a physical catching away. The latin word for this term suggest the english word "RAPTURE."