*T.L Craft: A further look into His Departure* - Page 10

meBNme · #91 12-01-2007, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

Yes I heard them. The preacher is NOT UPCI anymore. I will PM you the information on where the church is at exactly and you call and order the 2 CDs of the sermon. It is 2 hours long and he said he had a 4 hour spirit on him. I am glad it got off of him.

If someone happens to know who the preacher is, I am NOT bashing him. He has a right to preach anything he chooses to his people and in a conference is the host pastor agrees with it. The can believe it as strict as they choose. Again I state, I am only stating facts, I am not bashing.

See, thast is what I am after folks.

If JM heard it directly from the source, then what is wrong with posting it? I say go for it.
It's the "I heard so-an-so say they heard" mess and the speculative, "well I heard such-an-such so what they must have meant was blah blah blah" crud that should stop.

meBNme · #92 12-01-2007, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

You're doing a solid job under interrogation.

So now asking a question for clarification is "interrogation" to you?

No, I asked, he answered. That's called conversation.

You aren't doing so hot of a job though, and yeah, I am far closer to "interrogation" with you than I was with JM.

So come on Brother, step up, put out some substance to your claims.
You do a real good job at throwing jabs and making fun. You also post good stuff from time to time. So lets see you step to the plate on this "crusade" of yours.

Rhoni · #93 12-01-2007, 03:32 PM

The whole T.V. issue, as well as the affiramtion statement, is ridiculous to part friends, family, and churches over. If it were Biblical Doctrine...but it is the devil's business to cause us to major on minor things.

I am surprised about Bro. Craft because, as you say, he is well on in years and has established friendships and loyalties. JCM will not reopen, at least not the JCM we knew.

Just my thoughts on this matter.

Sister Alvear · #94 12-01-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Oh maybe you're right, Mother Alvear .... thanks for reminding me of my carnality.

for you Dan...we gain more reaching out to others even in the jungle land

SDG · #95 12-01-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meBNme

OK, so you make light of someone seeking truth in the rumors?

Do you not want truth?
Isnt that what every Christian should seek?
You are quick to deffend the rumors. Why are you not also seeking to deffend the truth?

Folks, I am not claiming those men are right or wrong. I am not saying the org is good or bad. I am simply challenging unfounded rumors.

Daniel, as a Christian, should we be backing the rumors or seeking the truth?

Quote:

Originally Posted by meBNme

So now asking a question for clarification is "interrogation" to you?

No, I asked, he answered. That's called conversation.

You aren't doing so hot of a job though, and yeah, I am far closer to "interrogation" with you than I was with JM.

So come on Brother, step up, put out some substance to your claims.
You do a real good job at throwing jabs and making fun. You also post good stuff from time to time. So lets see you step to the plate on this "crusade" of yours.

Surely there is a pecking order when it comes to verifying truth .... however your litmus test seems very flawed as you present it ...

I do not question the veracity of of JM's or VB's posts in this thread however to believe something said because the person claims to be an eyewitness is not the only indication that something is not rumor or speculation ... to me this approach seems simple-minded and foolish. For all we know that eyewitness could be fabricating, embellishing or simply reporting the events from their perspective and/or bias.

Historians, detectives and other truth detectors often rely heavily on primary documents, artifacts and eyewitness accounts to piece together the "truth" or analyze events. But is not all they look at ...

Corroborating circumstantial evidence has weight in courts of law and in the end game analysis of truth ....

to simply dismiss what authoritative people on this forum have heard from parents, pastors, relatives, good friends, and people in the know, can and should be submitted for truth analysis ...

My point is this ... to accept second hand knowledge from just one person would be silly and unwise .... yet any person w/ some common sense would know that we should take things said here w/ a grain of salt and test them against what others are saying.

The witness is still an essential part of finding out truth .... as is the PREPONDERANCE OF EVIDENCE. The authority of your source also should play a factor.

Imagine if those in the first century church held your litmus test for truth ... and said no I won't believe in Jesus Christ because well I haven't seen him or didn't speak one on one w/ him ... and I definitely won't believe a second hand account...

No one is advocating for rumors or backbiting ... but to run around this forum and say they are not factual, unsubstantiated or unfounded is well ... imo ... primitive and condescending.

Part of the value of this forum is information sharing and sharing our analysis of bits of information ... each one of us comes here w/ areas of expertise and unique life experiences that helps make sense of the stuff happening around us ....

also it's a place where folks are going to give opinions based on their bias and opinions ... and guess what ... that's what makes this place great ... at least to me.

We stifle thought, creativity and the discovery of truth... if we're in the business of censoring or suggesting folks are liars... which in turn discourages information sharing.

Of course, we should be careful and responsible in how we share information or our opinions ... and do so in a Christ-like manner ... but my goodness ....

to label every piece of second-hand information as fabrication or dubious ... especially if THE FACTS ADD UP ... or if folks are simply commenting on the events as presented to them .... ain't unChristlike ... or non-Christian ... it's just people being people and relaying information.

Give people a chance to share thoughts, ideas, information ... we're big enough to piece together the facts.

If you seek to challenge folks to presenting truth ... then expect to be challenged in various ways also. Welcome to the AFF.

SDG · #96 12-01-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

for you Dan...we gain more reaching out to others even in the jungle land

Great pic, sister Alvear ... thank God you guys have answered the call.

Sister Alvear · #97 12-01-2007, 04:23 PM

Whether men join or leave the UPC the fact remains that there is a lost world and we must dine with the doves...buzzards like dead stinky things...let's be above that...think on good things...pure and holy...this is what real holiness is about.

By the way our son from the jungle just called us to tell us one more soul came to Jesus. She had just lost her baby when we was up there last Wednesday...today she came to the Lord...she was so impressed that strangers would help clean her up, pray and sing with her in the situation she was in...