3.5 years or 1260 years

[Amanah]

It's actually never been about DNA, Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese, Jordanians, Bedouins, middle eastern populations in general share DNA.

It's about covenant relationships, beginning with Abraham, then Israel, and now the Israel of God for all people groups. The "Jews" were not singled out to be excluded for 2,000 years. That would be horrific.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

It's actually never been about DNA, Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese, Jordanians, Bedouins, middle eastern populations in general share DNA.

It's about covenant relationships, beginning with Abraham, then Israel, and now the Israel of God for all people groups. The "Jews" were not singled out to be excluded for 2,000 years. That would be horrific.

Amen in JESUS NAME!!!

Hence all must be grafted into the Olive Tree through the Water Way in Jesus name. Coming up out of the water in Newness of Life. Like a New Born baby speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance!

The multitude which cannot be numbered.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Amen in JESUS NAME!!!

Hence all must be grafted into the Olive Tree through the Water Way in Jesus name. Coming up out of the water in Newness of Life. Like a New Born baby speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance!

The multitude which cannot be numbered.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by coksiw

I hope is doing well too.

Esaias is absolutely correct that the word means week of days. A word means what it means by context and what the original readers would have understood at first. You can't take it out and say "it means 7, nothing else!"

Since, it is apocalyptic, it is also possible the original readers had the ultimate meaning hidden to them as well, however, at first the readers would have understood it as weeks of day, in their literal sense, and then after more reading, would have realized there is a non-literal symbolic meaning to it because of the impossibility of some of the things mentioned in regard to that timeline.

The only way in the context I can see someone would figure out in this case that this prophecy of Dan 9 means years, not days, is by the context as well:

* The city was going to be rebuilt: ...To restore and build Jerusalem...Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. .... No way that Jerusalem and the Temple were going to be rebuilt that quick. The original readers could have figured it out that those weeks were symbolic.

* The day-to-years principle is always in the context of judgment for the sins of the recipient of the judgments. This point actually could cut both ways.

Hi all. Thanks for the thought s.

But it does mean seven....
Original: שׁבעה שׁבע שׁבוּע

Transliteration: shâbûa‛ shâbûa‛ shebû‛âh

Phonetic: shaw-boo'-ah

BDB Definition:

seven, period of seven (days or years), heptad, week
period of seven days, a week
Feast of Weeks
heptad, seven (of years)

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Romans 11. I know you have addressed that before, but for me, the plain reading of the passage tells me clearly Paul is speaking that God is not done with the Israel that it is according to the flesh, because the gift is irrevocable. Paul says that Israel has a small minority that is responding to the Gospel, while the rest has been hardened. As result, the Gentiles are coming in. When the time is come, the nation of Israel according to the flesh will have a greater reception of the Gospel. Obviously, it is a generalization, the same way Paul himself also generalizes in the passage, and not every.single.living.descendant.will.be.saved, but simply that there will be a greater revival among them, powerful enough to influence the Israel as a nation.

I know there is a debate about whether "And so" in 11:26 means "and in this way" or more temporal like "and at the end". Those that believe the replacement theology want to say "and in this way" is the right translation so that "Israel" is really the minority that responded plus the Gentiles. But the context of the passage is about the destiny of the hardened Israel which constitutes the majority, and which Paul has generalized already to "all Israel". Therefore, the best translation here is "at the end," concluding the mystery question what would happen to the Israel as a whole that has been hardened.

I believe that passage in Romans 11 is clear as water that God is not done with Israel as a nation according to the flesh.

God is not done with Israel according to flesh because all flesh need to come to God, and that doesn't discount Israel.

But Ephesians 2 teaches Jew or gentle all belong in the church and need to get in it. There's nothing special for Israel apart from their need to get in the church.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

In Ezra 2:59-62

We are shown genealogy. We are explicitly shown “the children of the children of Barzillai; which took a wife of the daughters of Barzillai the Gileadite, and was called after their name: These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.” Now if we were dealing with being biologically correct, these offspring of the daughter of David’s favorite gentile would be legitimate as Levites. Yet, the Bible declares these “biological” Levites as corrupt. Genealogy meant everything to the ancient Israeli and Judean. We are showed Jesus’ genealogy to show He is of the root of Jesse. Therefore we who are students of the Bible must follow this rule when defining the a Judean according to the flesh. As you pointed out you are a mix of many different lineages and races. Now, if your ancestor was a Judean of the tribe of Judah, and this ancestor was born over 2,000 years ago. His or her descendent would have gone through many pairs of parents. Too many to count. By the time we come to 2024, there original DNA blueprint would be gone.

The problem is real, and a Jew according to the flesh is missing from your eschatology. Still I would like you to prove who is a Jew according to the flesh now?

You got a good point here: genealogy.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Amanah

It's actually never been about DNA, Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese, Jordanians, Bedouins, middle eastern populations in general share DNA.

It's about covenant relationships, beginning with Abraham, then Israel, and now the Israel of God for all people groups. The "Jews" were not singled out to be excluded for 2,000 years. That would be horrific.

Biblically speaking, there is a difference between "group" as a system of people united by something, and "individuals". There can be covenants with groups, and with individuals outside or inside the group (e.g., David within Israel). There can be a "group" that broke a covenant and then rejected/punished as a group, yet "individuals" inside the group kept the covenant and went well for them within the circumstances for the "group" punishment (e.g., remnants within Judah).

Paul explains that to some extent in Rom 11.

I know it seems strange, hard, and the logic may defy our reasoning, but unless the translator are doing a terrible job, that's what Paul says in Romans 11.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Hi all. Thanks for the thought s.

But it does mean seven....
Original: שׁבעה שׁבע שׁבוּע

Transliteration: shâbûa‛ shâbûa‛ shebû‛âh

Phonetic: shaw-boo'-ah

BDB Definition:

seven, period of seven (days or years), heptad, week
period of seven days, a week
Feast of Weeks
heptad, seven (of years)

Find one instance in the Bible outside Daniel or one instance outside the Bible from a text that it is older than BC, where that word refers to seven years and I will change my mind.

[Amanah]

Both arguments are correct, but they're emphasizing different aspects of the word's meaning.

The first argument is correct that the word "שׁבעה" (shâbûa‛) is related to the number seven. In Hebrew, the word is derived from the root "שׁבע" (shâba‛), which means "seven".

The second argument is also correct that the word "שׁבעה" (shâbûa‛) typically refers to a week, which is a period of seven days. In the context of the Old Testament, the word is often used to describe a week of days, as seen in the examples provided.

So, the word "שׁבעה" (shâbûa‛) has a dual meaning:

- It's related to the number seven.
- It typically refers to a week, which is a period of seven days.

In the context of Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy, the word "שׁבעה" (shâbûa‛) is used to describe a period of seventy weeks, which is understood to represent seventy weeks of years, rather than literal days. This interpretation is based on the context and the Year-Day Principle, as mentioned in the second argument.

~meta

After conducting a thorough search, I found no instances in scripture or outside of scripture where "שׁבעה" (shâbûa‛) is translated simply as "7" outside of Daniel's prophecy (Daniel 9:24-27).

In all other instances, "שׁבעה" (shâbûa‛) is translated as "week" or "weeks", emphasizing the concept of a seven-day period. The word's connection to the number seven is evident, but it's not directly translated as "7" except in Daniel's prophecy, where it's understood to represent a period of seventy weeks of years.

~meta

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Find one instance in the Bible outside Daniel or one instance outside the Bible from a text that it is older than BC, where that word refers to seven years and I will change my mind.

I'm just giving definition from the Hebrew...

Linguistic Roots: The word "שבוע" (shavua) comes from the Hebrew root "שבע" (sheva), which means "seven."

Please look it up.

It's typically used for 7 days in a week, but that doesn't mean that's the literal definition of it.

Jacob had to work another week, literally week, to get Rachel. And that was 7 years.