PAW Is Crumbling!!!Bishop Noel Jones is leaving too!

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

Then why not just use the divisive terms - Oneness and Trinitarian instead of the inflammatory terms - Jesus Only and Three God Preachers. I absolutely hate it when I hear either one. I was NEVER a Trinitarian or Three God Preacher and I never claimed the Oneness or Jesus Only label. We all know how unchristian it is to use such divisive language.

We should be Bible Preachers. My theological upbringing was the Trinity and I was baptized in the F/S/HG formula in my young life. When I saw that the only way the NT believers were baptized was using the name of Jesus as identification with the Messiah and Anointed one - I was baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ. I have never baptized any one any other way - even in the COGOP and A/G except in the Name of Jesus Christ. That is not a Oneness position - it is a BIBLE position!

[brianmidwest]

The problems with the various organizations are all indicative of one truth, that organizations are made of men, and men are prone to sin.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

Then why not just use the divisive terms - Oneness and Trinitarian instead of the inflammatory terms - Jesus Only and Three God Preachers. I absolutely hate it when I hear either one. I was NEVER a Trinitarian or Three God Preacher and I never claimed the Oneness or Jesus Only label. We all know how unchristian it is to use such divisive language.

We should be Bible Preachers. My theological upbringing was the Trinity and I was baptized in the F/S/HG formula in my young life. When I saw that the only way the NT believers were baptized was using the name of Jesus as identification with the Messiah and Anointed one - I was baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ. I have never baptized any one any other way - even in the COGOP and A/G except in the Name of Jesus Christ. That is not a Oneness position - it is a BIBLE position!

Why even use terms like "trinitarian" or "oneness" or "one God" or "Jesus Only" or "Three Gods"? Why not just agree that we all believe that God is Father, Son, and Holy Ghost and leave the baptismal formula in the local church between the one being baptized and the one doing the baptism? If someone says, "I baptize you in the name of the Lord" or "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" or "I baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ" doesn't God know what that name is?

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by Sam

Why even use terms like "trinitarian" or "oneness" or "one God" or "Jesus Only" or "Three Gods"? Why not just agree that we all believe that God is Father, Son, and Holy Ghost and leave the baptismal formula in the local church between the one being baptized and the one doing the baptism? If someone says, "I baptize you in the name of the Lord" or "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" or "I baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ" doesn't God know what that name is?

Sam, isn't knowing the virtual name the family in heaven and earth is named something that should be taught prior to baptism. Also, shouldn't the purpose of baptism be taught, and if it is, wouldn't Jesus' name baptism be absolutely clear?

If we "all agreed" that Jesus IS the Father, Son and Holy Ghost then I could go with what you've said.
I'll give you an example from personal history. A number of years ago I pastored an independent church. I felt we needed a "connection" to organizational ministry for fellowship of the folks in attendance. I called the Church of God HQ in the NW to talk about fellowship, meetings, and even credentialing. Once the gentleman on the phone realized that I had attended a UPCI Bible College his tone changed dramatically. He told me that the ONLY way I could be licensed or whatever in the CofG would be if I signed a statement to the effect that in no uncertain terms that I would water baptize ONLY in the name of the F,S&HG and would NOT baptize in the name of Jesus' only. That ended my budding relationship with the CofG. The ministry just does not agree that the "name" of the F,S&HG is Jesus.

I think I know where you're coming from, because it is Jesus alone, after all, that saves.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by BishopMHaywood

skipped pages 12 - 13 (I think, it was about 30 minutes ago, before I registered) so I may be saying what has already been stated, but:

Bishop Noel Jones has not left the PAW.

Also, there should be no problem with Oneness preachers taking over Triny churches, the only ones I know of who have done this have made them into Oneness churches = Victory!

I was born and raised PAW, there are a variety of degrees in everything there, PAW leadership is not structured to have true authority over local assemblies so it's hard to control what happens other than putting them out of the org. There are many generalizations about the PAW in this thread that are simply inaccurate. The vast majority of PAW churches are quite solid, there are, of course, exceptions.

I have found the PAW to be quite useless as far as functioning for the purposes that lead people to work together. I think it has become a place to send money and not much more, but most of the individual churches are good.

OUCH!