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Originally Posted by synycisity
From reading the previous posts the right to make a decision is and has not been part of this discussion Chan, but the matter of entering into a covenant that is not balanced.
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But it is only the right to choose that makes a will free. Merely having the capacity to choose does not make the will free.
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You are saying that right and wrong is not subjective to God's will... that is wrong, the fact is that the definition of right and wrong COULD change it MAY not due to the fact that it is immutable (which I disagree on the grounds that God can do whatever he pleases).
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Note the word used is "subjective" and not "subject." Right and wrong (as established by God) do not change - ever! God's standards are as immutable as God is.
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So in essence when you say it is not subject you MUST there is absolutely no way around it imply that it is objective. And the law is established by the will of God, not by some external force.
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No, I didn't say right and wrong were not subject to the will of God (in fact, I said they were subject to the will of God), I said right and wrong were not
subjective*! Since I don't imply, your statement that I must imply is simply wrong. But let me make it clear for you: RIGHT AND WRONG ARE NOT SUBJECTIVE, THEY ARE OBJECTIVE AND ARE ESTABLISHED BY GOD.
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This is confusing? So you are saying that God in all his might and power, did not give Adam and Eve the right to choose yet they still had the ability? Odd theology for a proclaimed Calvinist.
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There's nothing confusing about it except maybe to people who ridiculously think that "free" simply means "ability or capacity." There is no FREE will since the will does not have the RIGHT TO CHOOSE. The fact that God punishes us for our choices, judges us for our choices, is proof in itself that God does not give us the right to choose what we want. If we had the right to choose sin, God would not have the right to punish us for our sins. A person has the capability of murdering another person but that doesn't mean he has the right to murder.
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Why would you doubt it? The serpent had to lie and convince them otherwise... if they were not weighing the consequence of death then why on earth did he have to do this?
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It was the serpent's nature to lie! But notice that the serpent fed Eve a whole bunch of truth before slipping in that little lie. Sure, Eve told the serpent what she was told (that if she ate of the tree she would die) but that doesn't mean she was weighing the consequence of death after the serpent told her she would not die.
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Very interesting thread... Chan I will have to side with Vegas on this one. But the question still stands....
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You have the right to be wrong.
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If God created a covenant consisting of free will
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He didn't.
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... meaning you can enter it or not...
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Since "not" brings eternal consequences in the form of punishment, it is not a right to choose what you want.
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then why is there a consequence of hell for not? Does that mean it is not free will since there is fire or golden streets?
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Yes, it means there is not free will. In order for a will to be free, it must have rights. Free=freedom=rights!
*
arising out of or identified by means of one's perception of one's own states and processes
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