Cult of the Past: Apostolic Identity Revealed?

DAII · #1 10-06-2010, 08:34 PM

I think the events of last week in Houston reveal a movement whose identity lies in an illusion and reifying of the past ...

From Scott Graham's "Trickle Down Theology" message, to 100K offerings only spurred when the shoes of "icons" were offered, to a revisionist tale of the role of Houston and other Pentecostal pioneers to ornate Victorian cameos or brooches in uncut hair ... we are seeing the face of the UPCI in the 21st century ...

it's one fossilized and fashioned in the mid 20th century ... in the nostalgia and worship of a generation passed.

What is the shelf life of such a movement?

"General Superintendent Bro. Bernard with the lamp that lit Rev. Parham's pulpit in Houston Texas, when the Apostolic Faith message came to Texas in 1905"

Sam · #2 10-06-2010, 10:16 PM

reminds me of the few remaining aged and decrepit cult members gathered around their rusty god and talking about how good things used to be and how they are expecting even bigger and greater things from that rusty god once he really gets going again.

coadie · #3 10-07-2010, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII

I think the events of last week in Houston reveal a movement whose identity lies in an illusion and reifying of the past ...

From Scott Graham's "Trickle Down Theology" message, to 100K offerings only spurred when the shoes of "icons" were offered, to a revisionist tale of the role of Houston and other Pentecostal pioneers to ornate Victorian cameos or brooches in uncut hair ... we are seeing the face of the UPCI in the 21st century ...

it's one fossilized and fashioned in the mid 20th century ... in the nostalgia and worship of a generation passed.
What is the shelf life of such a movement?

"General Superintendent Bro. Bernard with the lamp that lit Rev. Parham's pulpit in Houston Texas, when the Apostolic Faith message came to Texas in 1905"

The young generation with pride and unhealthy egos.

The older generation fought battles and misery in brush arbors . Lived without electricity so you could go on the web and whine.

Joel Osteen is your style.

Pro31:28 · #4 10-07-2010, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coadie

The young generation with pride and unhealthy egos.

The older generation fought battles and misery in brush arbors . Lived without electricity so you could go on the web and whine.

Joel Osteen is your style.

I don't think that I have to choose between rotting tradition and Joel Osteen- As a matter of fact I was just thinking the other day when I heard the song, "Give me that old time religion", It's NOT good enough for me; I do not want religion; I want a relationship.

I do not want my children doing something because "they are supposed to" or because it will get them in the Pastor's good graces. I want transparency in my life and in my children's. It costs a person a lot to put up a front or a mask, to become a tombstone of the faith. While you are there to stay, you are also accomplishing nothing.

But let's all dance around, inflate our numbers and pretend that we have it all together. Let's spend our services singing songs about what WE are, and preaching messages about what WE aren't~ No thanks, you can have that Old Time Religion, Just give me Jesus.

Falla39 · #5 10-07-2010, 08:46 AM

Many didn't grow up during the years following the Great Depression and WWII. It is easy to open our mouths to places we have never been and things we have never experienced.

I know many younger people who when we were young marrieds, raising our family, who, due to youthful minds, declared, "If that was me, yada, yada, I would do yada yada! If that was my kid, I'd yada, yada!

Remember one of them, when their child came along and their child openly defied them when told to do or not do something. On one occasion, as their youngster did exactly the opposite as they were told not to do, I said grinning, "If that was my kid.... Grinning, the reply came, "Yeah, I know, I've had to eat a lot of my words". There was now understanding, bridging the gap! We were ending that phase of our lives. They were just beginning.

So when I hear the arrogancy of many of today's youthful generation, I can remember that they will no doubt be eating many of their words too. When they grow up and become a mature man! When they've passed through life's tests. When they have reaped tomorrow what they sowed today!

1Cor.13
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Falla39

coadie · #6 10-07-2010, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro31:28

I don't think that I have to choose between rotting tradition and Joel Osteen- As a matter of fact I was just thinking the other day when I heard the song, "Give me that old time religion", It's NOT good enough for me; I do not want religion; I want a relationship.

I do not want my children doing something because "they are supposed to" or because it will get them in the Pastor's good graces. I want transparency in my life and in my children's. It costs a person a lot to put up a front or a mask, to become a tombstone of the faith. While you are there to stay, you are also accomplishing nothing.

But let's all dance around, inflate our numbers and pretend that we have it all together. Let's spend our services singing songs about what WE are, and preaching messages about what WE aren't~ No thanks, you can have that Old Time Religion, Just give me Jesus.

Are you a soul winner?
I came from a family of soul winners and the concept of "rotting tradition" never crossed my mind. I respect my elders.

coadie · #7 10-07-2010, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falla39

Many didn't grow up during the years following the Great Depression and WWII. It is easy to open our mouths to places we have never been and things we have never experienced.

I know many younger people who when we were young marrieds, raising our family, who, due to youthful minds, declared, "If that was me, yada, yada, I would do yada yada! If that was my kid, I'd yada, yada!

Remember one of them, when their child came along and their child openly defied them when told to do or not do something. On one occasion, as their youngster did exactly the opposite as they were told not to do, I said grinning, "If that was my kid.... Grinning, the reply came, "Yeah, I know, I've had to eat a lot of my words". There was now understanding, bridging the gap! We were ending that phase of our lives. They were just beginning.

So when I hear the arrogancy of many of today's youthful generation, I can remember that they will no doubt be eating many of their words too. When they grow up and become a mature man! When they've passed through life's tests. When they have reaped tomorrow what they sowed today!

1Cor.13
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Falla39

That fits this topic.

It is said that Roman emperor Domitian commanded that the apostle John be boiled to death in oil, but John only continued to preach from within the pot. Another time, John was forced to drink poison, but, as promised in Mark 16:18, it did not hurt him. Thus John, the head of the church in Ephesus at the time, was banished to Patmos in A.D. 97. Carrying gravel from a quarry all day.

I can tell many youth do not have the religion John had.

POWERUP · #8 10-07-2010, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro31:28

I don't think that I have to choose between rotting tradition and Joel Osteen- As a matter of fact I was just thinking the other day when I heard the song, "Give me that old time religion", It's NOT good enough for me; I do not want religion; I want a relationship.

I do not want my children doing something because "they are supposed to" or because it will get them in the Pastor's good graces. I want transparency in my life and in my children's. It costs a person a lot to put up a front or a mask, to become a tombstone of the faith. While you are there to stay, you are also accomplishing nothing.

But let's all dance around, inflate our numbers and pretend that we have it all together. Let's spend our services singing songs about what WE are, and preaching messages about what WE aren't~ No thanks, you can have that Old Time Religion, Just give me Jesus.

Hands down, the best post of the Day!!! U go Pro......

Pro31:28 · #9 10-07-2010, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coadie

Are you a soul winner?
I came from a family of soul winners and the concept of "rotting tradition" never crossed my mind. I respect my elders.

I am so proud of you, Coadie

I am not really sure what one question has to with the other. I do witness, (in fact I spent a long time with a particular teenager last night who came to youth group and was having some anger issues) and I do respect my elders, but that is not what I am talking about.

Can you tell me how the most recent General Conference looked like the Church in Acts? Somewhere along the line someone started new traditions, but as long as we sit back and say "that is how God wants it" people think that by doing something different that they are out of the Will of God.
There are traditions that outlive their time, and when contiued to be followed, they rot. The UPCI was fresh in the 40's and 50's, and as long as there are a few people to tell others that God will send them to hell if they don't follow THE rules, then there will always be a few members left.

Do I believe that God still moves there, yes. Do I beleive that thier method is good, not at all.

coadie · #10 10-07-2010, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro31:28

I am so proud of you, Coadie

I am not really sure what one question has to with the other. I do witness, (in fact I spent a long time with a particular teenager last night who came to youth group and was having some anger issues) and I do respect my elders, but that is not what I am talking about.

Can you tell me how the most recent General Conference looked like the Church in Acts? Somewhere along the line someone started new traditions, but as long as we sit back and say "that is how God wants it" people think that by doing something different that they are out of the Will of God.
There are traditions that outlive their time, and when contiued to be followed, they rot. The UPCI was fresh in the 40's and 50's, and as long as there are a few people to tell others that God will send them to hell if they don't follow THE rules, then there will always be a few members left.

Do I believe that God still moves there, yes. Do I beleive that thier method is good, not at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro31:28
I don't think that I have to choose between rotting tradition and Joel Osteen- As a matter of fact I was just thinking the other day when I heard the song, "Give me that old time religion", It's NOT good enough for me; I do not want religion; I want a relationship.

You created a false dichotomy. (A) rotting religion of the past or (B) Joel osteen

You seem to have a distorted caricature of some forms of old time religion.
General Conference is like a church picnic. There is no persecution of the church when it is just a gathering of saints.