apostolic pastor leaves child in car that died.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I agree and disagree with your view on this. Yes, we are responsible to care for these little people in our lives, but tragedy can fall upon the best of us.

I think we need to hear a little more about the story before drawing any harsh conclusions. I do know this; some people have a hard time remembering certain things, especially if they are weary or are on some type of medication.

From what others said in the video, this Pastor seemed to be a good man. At this point, the story is vague.

....fall on everyone except MOW, evidently. Tragedies happen everyday and it happens to great people. Any response to someone in this position other than heartfelt grief, a loving hand, and a kind word, is unbelievable to me.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I agree and disagree with your view on this. Yes, we are responsible to care for these little people in our lives, but tragedy can fall upon the best of us.

I think we need to hear a little more about the story before drawing any harsh conclusions. I do know this; some people have a hard time remembering certain things, especially if they are weary or are on some type of medication.

From what others said in the video, this Pastor seemed to be a good man. At this point, the story is vague.

If it is as it seems at face value, I stand by what I posted. It's a tragedy when you have an accident and your child loses its life in the accident. It's a tragedy when a mother rolls over on her baby. It's a tragedy when your child runs out in front of a car. It's tragedy when you take your eyes off your child for the tiniest moment and someone kidnaps them.

It is completely irresponsible to leave/forget them in a car. Call me hard all you want. If it were me, I'd say the same thing. It would be completely irresponsible of me to do that and I would deserve what came my way.

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Wow.....can't believe what I'm reading here. How easy it is for you to bark, but how devastating it would be for you to fail greatly. I guess that's not possible for you. If indeed this man truly forgot, and I would think he did, how could anyone do anything except grieve for him? How could we throw stones at him? I don't understand that.

We know of a lady here in town who experienced this years ago and has nearly, literally, lost her mind. You gonna yell at her too and insinuate that she cared for her child no more than she cared for ice cream??? Wow.

It would be devastating for me to fail greatly and it is quite possible. I would disappoint many people especially my family. That alone is an incentive to not to cross certain boundaries. I don't intend to play the part of perfection. In fact, my kids know all to well that Dad is NOT perfect. However, I do intend, God being my helper, to be their hero when it comes to fidelity to their Mother, the church I am privileged to pastor, and the community I am honored to serve. People need SOMEONE to look up to. HONOR and integrity need to be modeled somewhere. There are far more who are better at it than I, which I readily admit. But I still have a bullseye on the target and refuse to offer excuses as to why I didn't put a better effort on hitting it.

Until a person accepts personal responsibility for their actions, they can NEVER be what they or God wants them to be. They will only be a victim and victims have ZERO power over their circumstances. Victors, on the other hand, recognize they are broken, admit it, ask for help, listen to their helpers, do things differently and even when they fall, get back up again. A just man falls 7 times but rises up again.

I am the chief cheerleader for those who have fallen. I am also the chief critic when it comes to telling the truth in love as to why they've fallen. Leave one of those out and it's a "tragedy!"

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

If it is as it seems at face value, I stand by what I posted. It's a tragedy when you have an accident and your child loses its life in the accident. It's a tragedy when a mother rolls over on her baby. It's a tragedy when your child runs out in front of a car. It's tragedy when you take your eyes off your child for the tiniest moment and someone kidnaps them.

It is completely irresponsible to leave/forget them in a car. Call me hard all you want. If it were me, I'd say the same thing. It would be completely irresponsible of me to do that and I would deserve what came my way.



It would be devastating for me to fail greatly and it is quite possible. I would disappoint many people especially my family. That alone is an incentive to not to cross certain boundaries. I don't intend to play the part of perfection. In fact, my kids know all to well that Dad is NOT perfect. However, I do intend, God being my helper, to be their hero when it comes to fidelity to their Mother, the church I am privileged to pastor, and the community I am honored to serve. People need SOMEONE to look up to. HONOR and integrity need to be modeled somewhere. There are far more who are better at it than I, which I readily admit. But I still have a bullseye on the target and refuse to offer excuses as to why I didn't put a better effort on hitting it.

Until a person accepts personal responsibility for their actions, they can NEVER be what they or God wants them to be. They will only be a victim and victims have ZERO power over their circumstances. Victors, on the other hand, recognize they are broken, admit it, ask for help, listen to their helpers, do things differently and even when they fall, get back up again. A just man falls 7 times but rises up again.

I am the chief cheerleader for those who have fallen. I am also the chief critic when it comes to telling the truth in love as to why they've fallen. Leave one of those out and it's a "tragedy!"

Who is refusing to accept responsibility here??? Nothing of the sort has been said or implied. I guarantee you the lady we know that is nearly insane at this point in her life, has accepted responsibility. She lives with the responsibility every single day and with every single night that she can't sleep. And it's been YEARS!

So what about my examples of absent-mindedness? What about my driving to a house I'd lived in before and repeatedly trying to get the garage door opener to work? Was I being irresponsible? Was I somehow not being serious enough about life?

Again, any words to or about this man except passionate grief for him and heartbrokenness about what he's going to endure the rest of his life, are inexplicable to me.

[OnTheFritz]

Originally Posted by coadie

Some of us still take personal responsibility.

Unbelievable and idiotic thing to say in this context. I pray that you never have to experience what this man is going through.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by OnTheFritz

Unbelievable and idiotic thing to say in this context. I pray that you never have to experience what this man is going through.

Fritz, I can't even believe this discussion is taking place. Makes my head spin.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Who is refusing to accept responsibility here??? Nothing of the sort has been said or implied. I guarantee you the lady we know that is nearly insane at this point in her life, has accepted responsibility. She lives with the responsibility every single day and with every single night that she can't sleep. And it's been YEARS!

So what about my examples of absent-mindedness? What about my driving to a house I'd lived in before and repeatedly trying to get the garage door opener to work? Was I being irresponsible? Was I somehow not being serious enough about life?

Again, any words to or about this man except passionate grief for him and heartbrokenness about what he's going to endure the rest of his life, are inexplicable to me.

And that is where WE are. ANYTHING I post is inexplicable to you. It is what it is. That is not a problem for me nor are the things you post a problem for me. You post from your viewpoint and you're completely within your freedom to do so. So am I. It is just unfortunate that you don't grant the same grace to me and my ranting/posts that you accuse me of withholding from others.

A successful coach is one who does two things well: #1 Builds up the athlete for his/her effort even when it is sub-par or uncharacteristic of them. #2 Later points out what they could have done better to reach their goal.

The time to take responsibility is BEFORE one makes a choice. The more important a choice it is, the more gravity one should take in deliberation. We don't always have a lot of time to do so. I've made some really bad decisions in my life before and after salvation in which people were hurt. I was responsible for every one of them and I still refuse to be a victim. We are more than conquerors through HIM! Not in ourselves. I still fall at the feet of the One who is able to keep me from falling.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Why didn't God cause Hitler to be left in a car as a baby...?

This question just makes me realize there such a thing as dumb questions.

"The Lord let his baby die", this scenario that you have set up makes God responsible for every unjust death that ever occured because in your mind He could have prevented it.

This is not a dumb question Baron.


Over the last two years, there has been one situation after the other that has come into my life. There have been times I have asked why.

I don't think I am the only Christian that has ever asked God why.

In faith, we are to deal with the fact that the God who loves us and we love does allow tragedy.

I don't pretend to know what this Pastor and father is going through, but I can imagine and empathize with some of the thoughts that may come into the mind of the person going through.


As my friend, I sincerely hope that you never are in a situation where you look to the hills and ask God why.


The point wasn't to blame God as much as it was to empathize with a man that is going through a terrible tragedy.

[ManOfWord]

If you want to be in the "ranks" of those who are revered in the Bible, be prepared to: A: make mistakes. B: wrestle with God and "win!" C: live with your hip out of joint D: learn to be victorious with your hip out of joint E: teach others the above!

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

And that is where WE are. ANYTHING I post is inexplicable to you. It is what it is. That is not a problem for me nor are the things you post a problem for me. You post from your viewpoint and you're completely within your freedom to do so. So am I. It is just unfortunate that you don't grant the same grace to me and my ranting/posts that you accuse me of withholding from others.

A successful coach is one who does two things well: #1 Builds up the athlete for his/her effort even when it is sub-par or uncharacteristic of them. #2 Later points out what they could have done better to reach their goal.

The time to take responsibility is BEFORE one makes a choice. The more important a choice it is, the more gravity one should take in deliberation. We don't always have a lot of time to do so. I've made some really bad decisions in my life before and after salvation in which people were hurt. I was responsible for every one of them and I still refuse to be a victim. We are more than conquerors through HIM! Not in ourselves. I still fall at the feet of the One who is able to keep me from falling.

I wondered if you'd make this a personal issue. I'm sorry you feel that way. I think it's, one, a copout, and two, simply not the truth. Did you read this from just a couple of days ago?

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/sho...1&postcount=40

Your absolute statement bolded above is absolutely not true. Again, I'm sad you feel the way you do about me.

I don't see where the coach comparison comes in. But if you wanna go there, yesterday, Hunter Mahan choked at the worst possible time and hit a chip shot about two feet on a 30 foot shot, something you'll almost never see a pro golfer do. And it was at the worst moment. It gave Team Europe the coveted Ryder Cup.

At the press conference following, a reporter was grilling Mahan about the flub and he (Mahan) eventually broke into tears. It was an awkward moment and good etiquette would have been to move on to another question. Instead, the reported continued and asked what Mahan felt after he blew the shot. He tried to speak, no words would come out, and Phil Mickelson, who was sitting next to him, took the microphone and said, "Why don't we move on to another question." Our family was watching and we cheer Mickelson for having enough wisdom to not drill Mahan any more.

So at some point down the road, you or someone else would like to give "coaching tips" to this father who has suffered the worst of losses, and give him pointers on how to improve his memory, maybe there would be a time when that might work.

But for now? I can't imagine anything except what I've already said.

You didn't answer my question about my absent-mindedness and going to my old house and trying to get the garage door opener to work, was I being irresponsible or not caring enough, or do you think my brain may not function in the same ways other's do?

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

And that is where WE are. ANYTHING I post is inexplicable to you. It is what it is.

ALSO: No one has said what you said. Had they, I would have responded just like I did to you. You're the only one saying what you're saying. Sorry, but that's true. Secondly, the only one that seemed like he may be close to what you're saying was DAII, one of the people I admire most on this forum. I responded strongly to what he said, as well.

So if you choose to interpret this as a personal thing, that's your choosing, but you're wrong. I have no personal problem with you, regardless of what you think, but I'm saddened by the stance you're taking toward this father who has suffered the unthinkable.