Increasingly Clear Todd Gaddy is PCI

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Liberal

Really???? When did he talk about being born again in those two verses?

In verse 21 he explained being born again when he said that everyone who calls on the Lord will be saved.

In verse 38 he talked about being born again when he said repent.

In verse 38 he talked about being baptized in water as an experience subsequent to being born again.

In verse 38 he talked about the promise of the Father, the Holy Ghost Baptism which he and about another 120 had just received, as being available to those who were born again.

In verse 39 he reiterated that the promise of the Father, the HGB, was available to them who were there that day, also to their descendants, and also to those who were "afar off" (which I take to mean non-Jews according to Ephesians 2:11-13).

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Liberal

Really???? When did he talk about being born again in those two verses?

Admittedly, the tie in with the phrase "born again" is a bit of an extrapolation on my part. Also, the question is complicated when we ask just what the phrase "born again" relates to and what the phrase "the promise" in verse 39 refers to. Are they the same thing?

Acts 3:25-26, appears to refer to a "promise" (Genesis 12:3 being "the promise"), and that in "turning away from iniquities" (repentance) one receives "the promise." Thus, if "the promise" and "born again" are the same thing in Acts 2:38-39, then what it really says is: "Be 'born again' by repenting..."

If however, "the promise" of verse 39, refers to the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" - see Acts 2:33 & following - then we are left to ask, "Is the baptism of the Holy Spirit the same thing as being "born again" as per John 3:3?"

To that question I would answer, "No." Being "born again" (born from above) is something that only God can accomplish in any of our lives (1 Peter 1:3 and 1 Peter 1:23). It is HIS word that "begets" us (causes us to become alive) - John 5:25. The only "external evidence" of being born again (or begotten of God) that the Scripture gives is "love" (1 John 5:1) and "over coming the world" (1 John 5:4).

Thus, in a very narrow sense, I suppose your question is valid - Acts 2:38-39, may be seen as describing events that take place after one is "born again." However, from the questions in the crowd it would appear that the "born again" thing may have been taking place even as Peter was speaking - at least in the lives of a part of his audience.

It's not that I disagree with you - it's just that there's a lot happening here.

[Liberal]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Admittedly, the tie in with the phrase "born again" is a bit of an extrapolation on my part. Also, the question is complicated when we ask just what the phrase "born again" relates to and what the phrase "the promise" in verse 39 refers to. Are they the same thing?

Acts 3:25-26, appears to refer to a "promise" (Genesis 12:3 being "the promise"), and that in "turning away from iniquities" (repentance) one receives "the promise." Thus, if "the promise" and "born again" are the same thing in Acts 2:38-39, then what it really says is: "Be 'born again' by repenting..."

If however, "the promise" of verse 39, refers to the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" - see Acts 2:33 & following - then we are left to ask, "Is the baptism of the Holy Spirit the same thing as being "born again" as per John 3:3?"

To that question I would answer, "No." Being "born again" (born from above) is something that only God can accomplish in any of our lives (1 Peter 1:3 and 1 Peter 1:23). It is HIS word that "begets" us (causes us to become alive) - John 5:25. The only "external evidence" of being born again (or begotten of God) that the Scripture gives is "love" (1 John 5:1) and "over coming the world" (1 John 5:4).

Thus, in a very narrow sense, I suppose your question is valid - Acts 2:38-39, may be seen as describing events that take place after one is "born again." However, from the questions in the crowd it would appear that the "born again" thing may have been taking place even as Peter was speaking - at least in the lives of a part of his audience.

It's not that I disagree with you - it's just that there's a lot happening here.

True. I see being "Born Again" as our spiritual birth which takes place at repentance/confession/belief. Those aren't three different things, but three ways to describe one event.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Liberal

There are PCI churches all over the place. They're called, "The Assemblies of God." If you can deal with a 6-letter word, (Trinity), and something that's said at baptism (and no one in the bible ever said anything at baptism), then you'll be fine.

And....you'll have to deal with all the charismatic frultloops that develop out of the AG.

Yeah, because OP's don't have their fair share...