Am I the only one who leaves the brick and mortar churches of the USA and feels as if theres something missing, I sit in the pew and watch people(church leaders) put on a good show, it is entertaining but thats about all. The way I read the new testament the "church" is the body of believers in Jesus Christ and Jesus being the head, not pastors,priest,popes or any other man.
I have always(until recently) thought of church as a building, a holy place that the spirit of God dwells, we( the congregation) are under the leadership of the pastor, and his views of the word, should be our views, and if you do not agree or appose the pastors teachings you are un-godly.
I am not trying to bash pastors here, I just do not see anywhere in the new testament that puts men in charge of the "church". Church should be everyone greeting involved, not starring at the back of everyones head. How do we get to know one another's need if we never share our life together, a majority of us spend an hour a week together as a "church", My thought of the word is that we are the church 24 hours a day 365 a year.
Do you feel that way in your brick and mortar church. I don't, and don't tell me it's because I am not involved in the church, or there many programs that do a good job of making us feel better, but do little to produce fruit in the kingdom. Do you think we produce more fruit for the kingdom paying for a nice building and programs, or if all that money went to the widow in need, or the neighbor losing his home, or food banks, or countless other things.I know a lot of brick and mortar churches do these things, but compared to there budgets on salaries and building expenses, it does not compare.
Why also do we think that preachers and pastors are the only ones that have a full time ministry outside the church, we should all be sharing the gospel constantly in our on way, not just on Sunday, and then we do very little to promote the Kingdom. We go to sleep Sunday night, and wake up to our own agenda's mostly consisting on chasing the "mighty dollar" on Monday morning. Think if you had a family of believers that knew you personally, and that could help you and your family if financial problems arose, would that not eliminate a lot of your worries. Just think about my thoughts before replying. God Bless
Last edited by rgcraig; 09-28-2010 at 09:11 AM.
Reason: edited to make it easier to read
No there are many of us who struggle with the fact that the church building owns it ministers and congregations and not the other way around.
Most churches spend less than 10% of their budget in outreach. Everything else is rent and salaries and internal expenses.
There are some here who hold to the house church idea like Aquila... and it sure has its appeal after you get sick of the weekly "show"... which i understand 101% what you mean.
Very thought provoking post. I would also say it has a good measure of conviction as well. It has only been in the last couple of years that I have been pondering this very subject myself. I sometimes think about it in relation to Jesus and the borrowed tomb, we use the facility at our current church twice in the week, yet we pay outrageous utility bills and a mortgage on the building/property.
Seems to me that for the amount of time actually spent in the church building, we could easily either do cell groups, or find some open air means of congregating when weather permits, or something. In my experience, alot of the fundraising efforts, building fund, tithe, ect., goes mostly to upkeep the building and grounds. Very little actually goes to the ministry (ala pastor), and community outreach. From a fiscal point of view it just does not make sense how we "do church" here in the US.
Having said all that, I'm certainly not "against" having a building per say, but I am against (as was stated earlier) the building having us and holding the congregation ransom. I have actually had a pastor tell me that they have seen folks who work in the financial aspects of the church backslide in part to having to deal with the pressures of the finances of the church - how sad.
Sorry but I am not one of the malcontents of this age who see bad things every time they look at brick and mortar churches.
I have news for you - anytime human beings are involved in something it is not going to be perfect. Including those of you who think you are doing something superior by leading your own little "house church". You will find the imperfections of human beings will rear its ugly head there also. Just not as often as a tiny group has fewer of those imperfect humans to make things not wonderful.
Of course there are bad churches but you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater!
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
Here let me help you. start a church in your house. just start having a bible study and maybe you can get some folks to come with you.
then you wont be burdened with bricks and morter (assuming your house isnt brick) and you wont be a burden to some poor pastor who is slaving away working to pay for bricks and mortor while having to deal with anti-brick malcontents.
peace and long life my friend!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Sorry but I am not one of the malcontents of this age who see bad things every time they look at brick and mortar churches.
I have news for you - anytime human beings are involved in something it is not going to be perfect. Including those of you who think you are doing something superior by leading your own little "house church". You will find the imperfections of human beings will rear its ugly head there also. Just not as often as a tiny group has fewer of those imperfect humans to make things not wonderful.
Of course there are bad churches but you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater!
my church is a bad church. I HATE IT! Its the gym of a baptist church that just got bought out by an Indian Catholic group.
the good news is my church is about 3 weeks away from being an OFF THE HOOK AWESOME church! We are just about done with our new construction and it will be beyond awesome!
By the way those that hate brick and mortor churches will like ours. it is Stucco and Stone!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Sounds like someone sorting through the frustrations of this cheap off-brand we've labeled "church" in the last few decades. I can completely relate. I didn't read your comments as if you are necessarily opposed to buildings, but how building-centered the concept of "having church" truly is. I get that.
One thing I would challenge you with is your idea that there is no leadership in God's church, that there is no one "in charge" to "feed the flock of God." Perhaps, the form and style of this "leadership" is more of what both ailes you, and what isn't perfectly matching the early church cultural rhythm.
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