Is Jesus Sitting on a Throne in His Flesh?

[SteppingStone]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

God is Spirit. Angels are spirits. God says "All heaven is my throne"..so it seems heaven is not a physical world. His throne is his dwelling place. Throne does not have to mean a literal chair but is symbolic of a kings rule

God, an omnipresent Spirit, is not literally taking weight off his tired feet by sitting on a literal throne.

Is Jesus "in his humanity" sitting on His throne? Yes! In other words Jesus has power NOW. Jesus is King. He rules. That does not mean there has to be a literal chair in heaven and Jesus is resting his tired feet sitting on it. It means that Jesus is reigning right now.

Thanks Prax, you are more eloquent than I most of the time. Aside from the Humanity part which I believe to be done away with based on 1 Cor 15:24-28

Jesus is reigning as: The Word of God, The Spirit and Life Words of God, Living Water, The Tree of Life, He is a Life Giving Spirit, The Holy Spirit Quickening His believers.

Not as a Human/God sitting in a chair on the other side of Pluto somewhere in space watching Alien Spaceships fly by..

[mfblume]

Steppingstone, do you believe Jesus is in the position now as Adam would have been had Adam not fallen?

[SteppingStone]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

My thoughts are open here.

Perhaps you can share more. Is Christ's existence as a Spirit (versus the belief in a bodily resurrection), telltale of other divergent Christological views you might have?

Personally, I fully expect to see those nail scarred hands when I get to Gloryland.

I believe Christ physically resurrected and I believe it was symbolic of the law, some kind of first fruit event, He was the only one promised not to see corruption.

I now believe the Holy Ghost working in us is a Spiritual resurrection in which we pass from death to eternal life, Spiritually.

The only scripture that gives me any indication that Christ is still literally in flesh is that He ever lives to make intercession for us from:

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

And even then I see that as simply meaning that God will never forget the work of the cross, not that Jesus is up there in space floating around at an altar, literally praying for us on his fleshly hands and knees (Besides some say he's sitting on a chair.) Is He sitting or is He kneeling?

Come on bro it's all Spiritual, God is Spirit and so is His Kingdom...

[mental]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I believe He is still with flesh, but flesh made immortal as it was when it left the tomb.

Adam would have remained immortal had he not fallen, and been in the place Christ now is. But the Last man Adam was God incarnate, and that immortal flesh with which He resurrected is still somewhere!

The difference between the first Adam and the second Adam isn't mortal vs immortal flesh. It is a natural body vs a spiritual body.

1 Cor 15:43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mental

The difference between the first Adam and the second Adam isn't mortal vs immortal flesh. It is a natural body vs a spiritual body.

I agree. But what I meant was that Adam was immortal and lost it, so Christ came to return that to us all. He is immortal as Adam would have been had Adam not fallen. And He is seated with the Father in His throne as Adam would have been had Adam not fallen. He is head of the human race as Adam would have been had Adam not fallen.

1 Cor 15:43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.

The immortality of Christ was what it means for Paul to say "The Lord from Heaven", which is the flesh we shall have in our resurrection. This is why it is said we shall be changed, since flesh as it is now cannot inherit the kingdom.

[mental]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I agree. But what I meant was that Adam was immortal and lost it, so Christ came to return that to us all. He is immortal as Adam would have been had Adam not fallen. And He is seated with the Father in His throne as Adam would have been had Adam not fallen. He is head of the human race as Adam would have been had Adam not fallen.



The immortality of Christ was what it means for Paul to say "The Lord from Heaven", which is the flesh we shall have in our resurrection. This is why it is said we shall be changed, since flesh as it is now cannot inherit the kingdom.

Interesting. Are you thinking Christ has (and our resurrected bodies will have) spiritual flesh? I’ve always thought of it as being a spiritual body as opposed to flesh. In other words a spiritual body won't have flesh. That is part of the natural body.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mental

Interesting. Are you thinking Christ has (and our resurrected bodies will have) spiritual flesh? I’ve always thought of it as being a spiritual body as opposed to flesh. In other words a spiritual body won't have flesh. That is part of the natural body.

I think most make that response when they first read this issue. But I honestly think it is mistaken. I have long researched Paul's words on this since I am partial preterist and have been shown the prospect of full preterism which denies a physical resurrection. I think we often make the mistake of thinking natural means physical, and so when we see natural contrasted with spiritual we think it is physical versus non-physical. However, Paul uses the same terms in 1 Cor 2 in comparing natural believers with spiritual believers. That is not a contrast of composite material. It is a contrast with what motivates a person. And in Chapter 10 the same idea of spiritual is used again in speaking of drink and meat which were very physical although also spiritual.

So, the idea is a physical body of either natural empowerment or spiritual empowerment.

The IKOS or INOS suffixes determine the issue. In these cases, IKOS is the suffix used. According to Greek scholars IKOS is used to describe what DRIVES a thing rather than what a thing is made of. For example, a wind machine that was quite physical was said to be a PNEUMATIKOS, since it was DRIVEN by wind. It did not mean it was made of wind, but driven by it.

Barnes said of 1 Cor 2:14:

Now the “natural man” is there opposed to the spiritual man, the ψυχικὸς psuchikos to the πνευματικὸς pneumatikos, and if the latter be explained of “him who is enlightened by the Holy Spirit” - who is regenerate - the former must be explained of him who is not enlightened by that Spirit, who is still in a state of nature; and will thus embrace a class far more numerous than the merely sensual part of mankind.

Bodies are containers. And they contain, in our cases, soul and spirit. But the SPIRITUAL BODY is not something like spirit that contains spirit. It is rather a spiritually and supernaturally driven physical body that contains spirit and soul.

[SRM]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I agree. But what I meant was that Adam was immortal and lost it, so Christ came to return that to us all. He is immortal as Adam would have been had Adam not fallen. And He is seated with the Father in His throne as Adam would have been had Adam not fallen. He is head of the human race as Adam would have been had Adam not fallen.



The immortality of Christ was what it means for Paul to say "The Lord from Heaven", which is the flesh we shall have in our resurrection. This is why it is said we shall be changed, since flesh as it is now cannot inherit the kingdom.

Where do you read Adam was immortal?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by SRM

Where do you read Adam was immortal?

Death came by sin, so without sin there is no death. Without death there is immortality. Adam existed before sin.

And notice that while Rom 5:12 says there is not death without sin present, the remedy for this dilemma is the physical death of Christ of Romans 6. How could Christ's physical death have any remedial effects for the death state of man unless man was not intended to physically die?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mental

Interesting. Are you thinking Christ has (and our resurrected bodies will have) spiritual flesh? I’ve always thought of it as being a spiritual body as opposed to flesh. In other words a spiritual body won't have flesh. That is part of the natural body.

Check out a thread dedicated to this question.

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=22582