UPC doctrinal contradiction

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by pelathais

...
Padfield erred, badly. You have followed his error. Read the source material that you yourself posted. All of them said it could either be "repent" or "baptism" that is being modified by the prepositional phrase beginning with "eis" in Acts 2:39.

...

A typo that got by me. Acts 2:38. All of the sources that TL posted here:

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/sho...077#post938077

They all agree to the ambiguity of the "for" (Greek "eis") debate concerning Acts 2:38. Just read what was posted by TL himself. They all say it could either be "Repent" or "be baptized" that is being modified by the prepositional phrase "for the remission of sins."

Thus it could be read, "because your sins are remitted" or "in order that your sins might be remitted." We need more than just this one verse to understand the gospel.

[Praxeas]

BTW thanks to everyone that hijacked the topic

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

BTW thanks to everyone that hijacked the topic

LOL! Your welcome ANYIME ANYTIME

and oh I will respond probably later tomorrow as I have early flight etc...

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

LOL! Your welcome ANYIME ANYTIME

and oh I will respond probably later tomorrow as I have early flight etc...

Have a nice flight. TL. We'll tangle when you're tanned, rested and ready to roll.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Unto the remission of your sins (εἰς ἀφεσιν των ἁμαρτιων ὑμων [eis aphesin tōn hamartiōn hūmōn]). This phrase is the subject of endless controversy as men look at it from the standpoint of sacramental or of evangelical theology. In themselves the words can express aim or purpose for that use of εἰς [eis] does exist as in I Cor. 2:7 εἰς δοξαν ἡμων [eis doxan hēmōn] (for our glory). But then another usage exists which is just as good Greek as the use of εἰς [eis] for aim or purpose. It is seen in Matt. 10:41 in three examples εἰς ὀνομα προφητου, δικαιου, μαθητου [eis onoma prophētou, dikaiou, mathētou] where it cannot be purpose or aim, but rather the basis or ground, on the basis of the name of prophet, righteous man, disciple, because one is, etc. It is seen again in Matt. 12:41 about the preaching of Jonah (εἰς το κηρυγμα Ἰωνα [eis to kērugma Iōna]). They repented because of (or at) the preaching of Jonah. The illustrations of both usages are numerous in the N.T. and the Koiné generally (Robertson, Grammar, p. 592). One will decide the use here according as he believes that baptism is essential to the remission of sins or not. My view is decidedly against the idea that Peter, Paul, or any one in the New Testament taught baptism as essential to the remission of sins or the means of securing such remission. So I understand Peter to be urging baptism on each of them who had already turned (repented) and for it to be done in the name of Jesus Christ on the basis of the forgiveness of sins which they had already received. The gift of the Holy Ghost (την δωρεαν του ἁγιου πνευματος [tēn dōrean tou hagiou pneumatos]). The gift consists (Acts 8:17) in the Holy Spirit (genitive of identification).
Robertson, A. (1997). Word Pictures in the New Testament (Ac 2:38). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems.

It is my understanding that "eis" in Greek is like "for" in English.
It can mean "in order to obtain" or it can mean "because of.'

The classic example is the Wanted Poster

Wanted
Dirty Dalton for (because of) bank robbery.
See local Sheriff for (in order to obtain) reward.

We've argued that Acts 2:38 means "in order to obtain" forgiveness of sins or "because of" forgiveness of sins over and over. We've cited Greek "experts" to prove both theories.

It's safest not to create a dogma on our interpretation of one passage like Acts 2:38.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Sam

It is my understanding that "eis" in Greek is like "for" in English.
It can mean "in order to obtain" or it can mean "because of.'

The classic example is the Wanted Poster

Wanted
Dirty Dalton for (because of) bank robbery.
See local Sheriff for (in order to obtain) reward.

We've argued that Acts 2:38 means "in order to obtain" forgiveness of sins or "because of" forgiveness of sins over and over. We've cited Greek "experts" to prove both theories.

It's safest not to create a dogma on our interpretation of one passage like Acts 2:38.

Excellent points. When it comes down to it Acts 2:38, is ambiguous on the "eis"/for point. We need the rest of Scripture to elucidate matters for us.

[Hoovie]

I want to say I appreciate the discussion on this thread especially those helping us know what "eis" is...

However, it is not necessarily the better/best argument that persuades me so much. (I know someone will call me on that)


There are those like myself who are not educated enough to spar with the pros, yet are very much interested, find ourselves watching from the sidelines. For me it is the knowledge that Jesus came to me and many others I know, changed our lives and made us alive in Him - This all before I spoke in tongues or was baptized. I was subsequently baptized and did speak in tongues within the following year, yet in all of that Jesus was in my heart. I was radically changed when Jesus forgave my sins!

[Praxeas]

As I said before, it can't go either ways, but that's irrelevant. It should not be an issue. Baptism is both a biblical command and a biblical practice of the NT church. Why would anyone not obey it?

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

As I said before, it can't go either ways, but that's irrelevant. It should not be an issue. Baptism is both a biblical command and a biblical practice of the NT church. Why would anyone not obey it?

Indeed. And we do not have this large constituency in limbo somewhere that reject baptism.

[mental]

Regarding Acts2:38, Acts A Handbook on the Greek Text by Parsons and Culy states the following.

ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι. It is unclear why the preposition ἐπὶ is used with βαπτίζω (only here in NT) rather than the expected εἰς or ἐν.

εἰς ἄφεσιν. The prepositional phrase denotes purpose. On the theological issues involved with this phrase see Wallace 1996, 369-71. It is likely that repentance and baptism were viewed as a single complex act leading to the forgiveness of sins (cf. 2:41; 18:8; 22:16)