Eschatological Judgment and Justification by deeds

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Actually I can point to many things... how deep we go is the issue that is pointless to deal with and is a waste of time before dealing with the principle issue. Why deal with that when the central issue is the principle issue that should be dealt with FIRST! I have already pointed out what will send you to hell in principle.

Personally I think most people could care less what the principle is, they just want to know what it means in terms of application.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Personally I think most people could care less what the principle is, they just want to know what it means in terms of application.

which goes to the mentality of.... Pastor tell me what to do but not why. New pastor comes in... Pastor tell me what to do and not why.... and the cycle continues instead of having a base or foundation of understanding. They like want to see the leaves and outline of a tree but don't care about the structure until they try to climb it and get hurt because they don't think about the other.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

which goes to the mentality of.... Pastor tell me what to do but not why. New pastor comes in... Pastor tell me what to do and not why.... and the cycle continues instead of having a base or foundation of understanding. They like want to see the leaves and outline of a tree but don't care about the structure until they try to climb it and get hurt because they don't think about the other.

I agree that mentality isn't good. I don't believe that caring more about how to apply a principle relates to that mentality. As far as application goes, you and the faith only crowd tend to believe the same kind of things will happen in practice. Mostly its just a difference in terminology.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I agree that mentality isn't good. I don't believe that caring more about how to apply a principle relates to that mentality. As far as application goes, you and the faith only crowd tend to believe the same kind of things will happen in practice. Mostly its just a difference in terminology.

uhhhh not really. The term "faith only" tends to have many different meanings. I consider myself "faith only" but my context is very different and the realization of faith is totaly different. Justification is contextual upon the Word known. Many will say your works have no effect on your salvation but you will do works if you have faith. Again it depends on what is meant. Yes in part that is true. Saving faith will be completed but a person can have works without the saving source and a person can have faith without the saving and justifying work. Thus NEITHER are saved. Saving faith is a completed and proper response to the context and justification is a on going aspect of our lives "concerning a matter."

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

uhhhh not really. The term "faith only" tends to have many different meanings. I consider myself "faith only" but my context is very different and the realization of faith is totaly different. Justification is contextual upon the Word known. Many will say your works have no effect on your salvation but you will do works if you have faith. Again it depends on what is meant. Yes in part that is true. Saving faith will be completed but a person can have works without the saving source and a person can have faith without the saving and justifying work. Thus NEITHER are saved. Saving faith is a completed and proper response to the context and justification is a on going aspect of our lives "concerning a matter."

You knew what I meant.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

No Mike... Faithfulness which is the call of the covenant to his WILL will justify our covenant position. The cross deals with the authority and rights of him obtaining authority of the "new" man and new life. Now he is the administator of the new covenant and we are at peace/abide by doing his commandments and walk as he walked in doing so we ENDURE and obtain right to eternal life.

IF We walk as he walk we have fellowship the body and the blood.
those that DO his commandments have "RIGHT" to the tree of life. You are blanketing initial work with covenant aspects and that is not the same thing. Lawlessness vs faithfulness. works of the flesh vs works of the Spirit. Either you are justified in being faithful or not. If you do not do you do not abide IT'S VERY SIMPLE! Abrham realized HIS PROMISE because he obeyed and WE ARE NO DIFFERENT! Contracts have stipulations and just as the old covenant so does the new covenant have a curse and blessings. He is the source of salvation to those that OBEY! Thus covenant justification is by faithfulness to the covenant command and specified relationship.

Another thing just like "your righteousness must exceed that of the pharisees" and your argument against my position that he is literal. You have again taken another positional understanding of justification and judgment by deeds that goes along with them.

I love it when the "Salvation by works" guys start fighting.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Hebrews 6 describes someone that has fallen away. What specifically does it take for a person to fall away?

"Who then turn away from God." It's not just "Falling", it's an intentional renouncing, a walking away from. The context of this were people who were renouncing the blood of Christ and returning to Judaism.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by jfrog

You knew what I meant.

I thought I did... just wanted to clarify my position.