SG: Ultra con darling?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Jon Alfaro

oh please the PCI roots are dead and shriveled. The only ones even remotely taking claim to it are the ones who are compromising everything else.

Like what? "Comprising" what?

Did you watch GA Mangun's homegoing service? Brother Mangun wasn't known for "PCI roots" and such, yet just look for a moment at the men who spoke.

Kenneth Phillips represents just the sort of "compromise" people like you appear to be denouncing. Mike Williams... I could say a lot, but I won't here because I love the man and I want him to succeed.

Did you see the ladies sitting near Sister Mangun - them with their cut hair and "compromising" ways? Recognize any faces? I saw the daughter of the man who was the featured "PCI martyr" in the book "Christianity Without the Cross." She helps to lead a fellowship of several growing churches - growing at an astounding rate.

"Dead and shriveled." Only in your dreams. But I have hopes that you will have better dreams in the future.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Jon Alfaro

Question? Your pastor taught holiness in dress did he not?

DA2's gone. Maybe he made it to bed. Probably just dropped to floor and started twitching at whatever point his batteries ran low.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Jon Alfaro

oh please the PCI roots are dead and shriveled. The only ones even remotely taking claim to it are the ones who are compromising everything else.

But Jon, whether true or not is this not a hurtful thing to say?

What about the UNITED Pentecostal Church? Are we no longer committed to the unity statement? Do you really want to glory that I am something of a lessor brother because I accept a similar salvific view as the original PCI circa the merger?

[Jon Alfaro]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Like what? "Comprising" what?

Did you watch GA Mangun's homegoing service? Brother Mangun wasn't known for "PCI roots" and such, yet just look for a moment at the men who spoke.

Kenneth Phillips represents just the sort of "compromise" people like you appear to be denouncing. Mike Williams... I could say a lot, but I won't here because I love the man and I want him to succeed.

Did you see the ladies sitting near Sister Mangun - them with their cut hair and "compromising" ways? Recognize any faces? I saw the daughter of the man who was the featured "PCI martyr" in the book "Christianity Without the Cross." She helps to lead a fellowship of several growing churches - growing at an astounding rate.

"Dead and shriveled." Only in your dreams. But I have hopes that you will have better dreams in the future.

Dead and shriveled a silent minority hardly represents anything alive sorry.

Compromise? I'll allow it to remain subjective to where ever you choose to apply it.

As far as the men at GA manguns funeral I really didn't care. Those were called friends and that is fine.

My point remains that to use the name of a man in the title of this thread shows intent of attack not intent of a discussion.

So far the idea of what should or shouldn't be preached at campmeetings hasn't been touched. "Ultra-cons and rippers" has been the topic of discussion. Dan has succeeded in what he hoped to achieve with this thread and you have supported him in doing so.

Bless your heart.

[Jon Alfaro]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

But Jon, whether true or not is this not a hurtful thing to say?

What about the UNITED Pentecostal Church? Are we no longer committed to the unity statement? Do you really want to glory that I am something of a lessor brother because I accept a similar salvific view as the original PCI circa the merger?

you embrace portions of the light doctrine. Ok, its wrong and I disagree. That is not the point of this thread.

The unity statement has been a thorn in the side of the UPCI for years but look at what concept of salvation has taken over the overall majority of the org... the right one. I assure you and just watch, DKB will be making some changes and the unity statement of yesteryear will be irrelevant.

Everyone will still attempt to remind us where our roots come from but the bottom line is, the truth prevailed.

I'm thankful personally that who I am today is not what my roots intended for me to be.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Jon Alfaro

you embrace portions of the light doctrine. Ok, its wrong and I disagree. That is not the point of this thread.

The unity statement has been a thorn in the side of the UPCI for years but look at what concept of salvation has taken over the overall majority of the org... the right one. I assure you and just watch, DKB will be making some changes and the unity statement of yesteryear will be irrelevant.

Everyone will still attempt to remind us where our roots come from but the bottom line is, the truth prevailed.

I'm thankful personally that who I am today is not what my roots intended for me to be.

I honestly don't know what to say - only that I hope and pray you are at least partially wrong.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Jon Alfaro

Dead and shriveled a silent minority hardly represents anything alive sorry.

Compromise? I'll allow it to remain subjective to where ever you choose to apply it.

As far as the men at GA manguns funeral I really didn't care. Those were called friends and that is fine.

My point remains that to use the name of a man in the title of this thread shows intent of attack not intent of a discussion.

So far the idea of what should or shouldn't be preached at campmeetings hasn't been touched. "Ultra-cons and rippers" has been the topic of discussion. Dan has succeeded in what he hoped to achieve with this thread and you have supported him in doing so.

Bless your heart.

Why, bless your heart too, Jon.

I can see why you're likely to be a bit fired up about this. You see the name of your pastor and that immediately sparks a feeling, even before a thought out response forms.

Consider too however, saying something that is near to me is "dead and shriveled" stirs something of a similar response. I'd invite you to take a look around though. The grace and sovereignty of God along with the power of Calvary's cross to save is still the dominant teaching among OP people.

I don't think DA2 was necessarily wanting to "slam" the named pastor so much as to "stir the pot" with a bit of stale sensationalism. I (sort of) still stand by my earlier comment that he probably thought it was kind of slow today so he went with what he had. That sort of thing.

I think Scott would get something of a laugh out of the whole thing. And then wonder, "what did I say???"

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Like what? "Comprising" what?

Did you watch GA Mangun's homegoing service? Brother Mangun wasn't known for "PCI roots" and such, yet just look for a moment at the men who spoke.

Kenneth Phillips represents just the sort of "compromise" people like you appear to be denouncing. Mike Williams... I could say a lot, but I won't here because I love the man and I want him to succeed.

Did you see the ladies sitting near Sister Mangun - them with their cut hair and "compromising" ways? Recognize any faces? I saw the daughter of the man who was the featured "PCI martyr" in the book "Christianity Without the Cross." She helps to lead a fellowship of several growing churches - growing at an astounding rate.

"Dead and shriveled." Only in your dreams. But I have hopes that you will have better dreams in the future.

Who was the woman, Pel?

[TrmptPraise]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The opener was the puzzling one for me. I figured DA2 just thought the forum was a little slow this evening.

The second post you cite is a sad reality, as was NOW's statements about sending young people to a camp meeting just to have them bullied by a bunch of neanderthals.

So many times I've gone to a camp meeting or conference seeking some sort of real uplift only to have to sit and listen to a harangue from some "holiness" preacher who would be leaving the fellowship with his secretary at the end of the year any way.

We really do need to become more sophisticated, IMHO. The frauds and the cons that we allow to run rampant though our fellowships have cause tremendous harm.

Meanwhile, the faithful and honest men that we have wadded up and thrown out like use tissue are still scorned as "compromisers."

Undoubtedly, the reality exists. No argument from that standpoint. However, we could argue that in relevance to any organization or religous movement.

I do not believe Dan (I hope not, anyway) was making a blanket statement that all "holiness" preachers are somehow rampant immoral vagabonds, but the posts in which I quoted (the original and the one where he stated his apparent reasoning behind the thread) were disingenuous.

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Exactly Trumpet. While I am one who would agree with Pel (as in post 39) I don't see any need to imply the more conservative among us are hiding dastardly deeds of evil in their personal lives. While I don't think their conservatism somehow exempts them moral failure, I certainly don't see it as a precursor either. No need to disparage character to simply say "I disagree with XYZ".

Scott, I believe, has a heart for the Lord and has nothing but a great personal reputation. He is leading a good group of believers in St Louis. I was at the new facility a couple weeks ago - it is very nice!

Had the privilege of being there as well many times including a couple of weeks ago (Quiz Finals?). I have invited him to minister on several occasions for events that I have hosted.

Yes, simply state the disagreement and move on. "Them holiness preachers gotta have something in the closet" after naming a man who, in their opinion, represents an example of a holiness preacher...well, just doesn't make sense.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Jon Alfaro

you embrace portions of the light doctrine. Ok, its wrong and I disagree. That is not the point of this thread.

The unity statement has been a thorn in the side of the UPCI for years but look at what concept of salvation has taken over the overall majority of the org... the right one. I assure you and just watch, DKB will be making some changes and the unity statement of yesteryear will be irrelevant.

Everyone will still attempt to remind us where our roots come from but the bottom line is, the truth prevailed.

I'm thankful personally that who I am today is not what my roots intended for me to be.

Then why all the lies over the years in order that "truth prevail?" Why can't your position on this issue even stand on it's own two feet in an OPEN forum like this? Instead all of your buddies have had to run and hide on private forums.

Why was the 1992 Westberg Resolution forced upon the fellowship by an open and later admitted lie from the platform? I was in the room. I remember.

Your doctrine requires lies about history to maintain itself - just go back and look at the threads on "the other forum" on this subject. Lies. Weisser, Chalfant, Arnold - lied.

Your doctrine requires lies about the history of the UPC itself. Read Fudge's "Christianity Without the Cross." A long series of lies were told to get you where you are today.

The UPC has even had to go back and airbrush the photographs of past General Superintendents and their wives to hide their "jewelry." Would an honest organization do that?

Sorry Jon. You sold the truth and bought a lie. Ask your pastor and the elder bishop there about that.

The last time I spoke to your pastor we were standing in a windy graveyard burying a mutual friend who was killed to cover up a lie concerning "a more prominent" evangelist's sex life. Just when will these lies come to an end?

The truth is, your viewpoint is a dying artifact of the mid twentieth century. It was a grand lie that was intended to ignore 1,700 years of Church history. Ask your pastor about any of this. If you get a chance, as DKB what he intends to do about it.