The sons of God and the daughters of men

[SteppingStone]

Originally Posted by theglory7

Another weird one is in Ezekial, when he describes the spaceship God come in with all the wheels within one another and he even goes on to describe the sound it makes. The question is, if God was omnipotent and omnipresent, why did he need this elaborate spaceship?

15Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.

16The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.

17When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went.

18As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four.

19And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.

20Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

21When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

My best interpretation without doing extensive research would be that Ezekiel was describing a Spiritual depiction of the brazen laver which did have wheels in the literal sense to help move it around. And this is just a guess because I'm very uncomfortable in explaining all the symbolism in the bible to say otherwise.

I wouldn't say God needed a spaceship but that the children of Israel used lavers, altars, and animal sacrifices to appease their own consciences. This process or this ritual PROBABLY took on an animalistic mindset with the people. Maybe not as bad as the Mayans offering up their own children and brethren but there had to be some carnality involved to say the least. I say this because in other passages God voices His displeasure in the blood offerings...

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by theglory7

I was reading a passage about this part of Genesis that I would probably pay little attention too, and looking back at it, it does pose a question. What is being referred to here as Sons of God and daughters of men? because in context, it looks like the sons of God were not just regular men. Someone please offer some insight and clarity.

Genesis 6

1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The sons of God were not just regular men but were spiritual beings along with the morning stars. They, and the morning stars, rejoiced at the design and creation of the heavenlies before humans were created.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

[Michael The Disciple]

They were the Angels who sinned. This is mentioned twice in the New Testament.

For if God didn’t spare angels when they sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved for judgment...2 Peter 2:4

Angels who didn’t keep their first domain, but deserted their own dwelling place, he has kept in everlasting bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day. Jude 1:6

If this is not that when did this happen?

[AJS]

Here is this man's thoughts...I haven't studied it enough to give an opinion. Click on the link for the complete study.


http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/nephilim.html#n01

Who Were the Nephilim and Sons of God?
by Rich Deem

Introduction

There is somewhat of a controversy in Christianity regarding the identification of the Nephilim and sons of God mentioned in the Genesis flood account (Genesis 6:2-4). Are the sons of God the human offspring of the godly line of Seth or angelic beings (demons)? Were the Nephilim a race of giants that existed before and after the flood or is the word just a generic term describing large strong people?
Nephilim and sons of God: Genesis 6

Let's look at the passage in question, in context:

Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. (Genesis 6:1-5)

The passage describes the Nephilim as being "men" twice, using two different Hebrew words. It does not use the Hebrew words used to describe angels ("angels," "cherubim," and "seraphim"). It's pretty obvious from the context that God was not happy about what was going on between the sons of God, the Nephilim, and the daughters of men. Let's go on to examine how other biblical passages use these terms.

Sons of God

Unfortunately, the phrase "sons of God" appears in only five verses from only two books of the Old Testament. Two verses are found in the Genesis 6 flood account. The other three verses are found in the book of Job. From the book of Job, the context clearly indicates that "sons of God" are angelic beings, since they enter directly into God's presence1 or existed before the creation of the earth.2 In the New Testament "sons of God" always refer to redeemed human beings.3

The giants (Nephilim)

The Hebrew word used to describe the Nephilim occurs in only two verses of the Old Testament, one in our passage from Genesis 6 and the other in the book of Numbers.4 From the book of Numbers, we find that the descendants of Anak are part of the Nephilim.5 Since Anak was a Canaanite,6 it would be logical to assume that the Nephilim were human, rather than angelic. The verses tell us little about the people, other than they were strong and tall and lived in fortified cities. Were these Nephilim the same as the Nephilim of Genesis 6? Contrary to the beliefs of many, Nephilim does not describe a race of peoples. In the Bible, races of people groups were designated by their founding male ancestor.
So, the Anakim were descendent of Anak. However, the Nephilim are never described as being descended from anybody.

The term actually means "giants,"7 being derived from the Hebrew word nephal, which means to "fall upon" or "overthrow," referring to their warlike nature.8 Since the Old Testament describes Nephilim both before and after the flood, if the Nephilim were a race then it would contradict the rest of Scripture, which indicates pretty clearly that there were only eight survivors of the flood.9

Demonic or angelic beings?

Some Christian have speculated that the "sons of God" from Genesis 6 were demonic beings, who had sexual relations with human women, and are now condemned to future judgment.10
However, Jesus made it clear that angels are asexual beings who do not engage in sexual relations at all.11 Since demons are merely fallen angels,12 they would, likewise, be unable to procreate with women. Some apocryphal books, such as the book of Enoch13 and book of Jubilees,14 indicate that the Nephilim were fallen angels. However, these books make some outrageous claims, saying that the giants were 450 feet tall!13

Conclusion

Since the Bible indicates that angels are asexual beings, it makes sense that they could not be the "sons of God" who produced children with the "daughters of men." The best interpretation is that the "sons of God" were men who were descended from Seth, who followed the Lord for a time (in contrast to the line of Cain, which produced the "daughters of men").15

However, right before the flood, even the "sons of God" took wives among the line of Cain, and, therefore, became corrupted themselves through their unbelieving wives.
This is one of the reasons God determined to destroy the entire human race, except for the eight people who still followed the Lord (Noah and his extended family).
Genesis 6 also describes the Nephilim, who were the corrupt strongmen of their time, notorious for their violent exploits (Genesis 6:4).

These men were probably also descendents of Cain, who were terrorizing the peoples and represented at least part of the group whose thoughts were "only evil continually." The Nephilim that were described after the flood were also evil strongmen, but not related to those pre-flood people, since they were all destroyed in the flood.

• Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. (Job 1:6)
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD. (Job 2:1)

• When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 38:7)

• "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Matthew 5:9)
for neither can they die anymore, for they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. (Luke 20:36)
For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. (Romans 8:14)
For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. (Romans 8:19)
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:26)

• "There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight." (Numbers 13:33)

• When they had gone up into the Negev, they came to Hebron where Ahiman, Sheshai and Talmai, the descendants of Anak were. (Now Hebron was built seven years before Zoan in Egypt.) (Numbers 13:22)
"Nevertheless, the people who live in the land are strong, and the cities are fortified and very large; and moreover, we saw the descendants of Anak there. (Numbers 13:28)
a people great and tall, the sons of the Anakim, whom you know and of whom you have heard it said, 'Who can stand before the sons of Anak?' (Deuteronomy 9:2)

Now he gave to Caleb the son of Jephunneh a portion among the sons of Judah, according to the command of the LORD to Joshua, namely, Kiriath-arba, Arba being the father of Anak (that is, Hebron). (Joshua 15:13)
And Caleb drove out from there the three sons of Anak: Sheshai and Ahiman and Talmai, the children of Anak. (Joshua 15:14)

• "For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, they were marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so shall the coming of the Son of Man be. (Matthew 24:38-39)
they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. (Luke 17:27)

By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. (Hebrews 11:7)
who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. (1 Peter 3:20)
and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; (2 Peter 2:5)

• And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, (Jude 1:6)
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; (2 Peter 2:4)

• On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Him and questioned Him, saying, "Teacher, Moses said, 'IF A MAN DIES, HAVING NO CHILDREN, HIS BROTHER AS NEXT OF KIN SHALL MARRY HIS WIFE, AND RAISE UP AN OFFSPRING TO HIS BROTHER.'
"Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no offspring left his wife to his brother; so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh. "And last of all, the woman died. "In the resurrection therefore whose wife of the seven shall she be? For they all had her." But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures, or the power of God. "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. (Matthew 22:23-30)

•
Lamech said to his wives, "Adah and Zillah, Listen to my voice, You wives of Lamech, Give heed to my speech, For I have killed a man for wounding me; And a boy for striking me; If Cain is avenged sevenfold, Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold." (Genesis 4:23-24)

[AJS]

HUMAN ANOMALIES

http://www.bibleufo.com/humanphenom98.htm

Tribes of Giants ...In the Bible and Around the World

One only needs to do a cursory study of the Bible to verify the definite existence of giants, throughout the biblical narrative. The earliest appearance of giants occurs just before the flood of Noah's documentation. Considering the detail added by Enoch in his accounting of the pre-flood giants, we learn that the flood was caused to rid the Earth of these giant hybrids spawned by devious angels, who were driven by cross-species sexual lust. But, for some unknown reason some, if not many, of the giants survived that flood or a genetic mutation was present in the normal-sized survivors.
Christian-centered belief accepts that only Noah and his kin survived the flood, but the ancient record, and anthropological and historical facts, challenge this narrow view. There are hundreds of Noah's and Noah-like flood legends in the histories and legends of most ancient peoples around the world. And, how did African, Asian, Mesoamerican, and the other great cultures of the world exist, on a much grander scale than the Adamic-related culture of the Bible, both before, and after, the great flood they record? Only more survivors could explain this.
The recognition of Bible related giants is high, even outside of mainstream Christian influence, with the famous and oft-repeated encounter of David and the giant, Goliath. Some are aware of other accounts of giants, the king with a 16-foot bed. Deeply buried in the biblical record, several "tribes" or groups of giants are named. Many of these are mentioned in the verses we present on giants in the Bible, but it would take an exhaustive project to do make an entire presentation on these giant tribes.
We always encourage our readers to do independent research on all subjects found in the entirety of this work. In this case anyone interested in these giant tribes can do an internet search using the words "giant" or "giants" in conjunction with any of names of giant tribes or groups listed below. Many others have done several research projects that are available online.

There are 36 of Tribes of Giants
mentioned in the Bible:

Amalekites
Amorites
Anakims
Ashdothites
Aviums
Avites
Canaanites
Caphtorims
Ekronites
Emins
Emins
Eshkalonites
Gazathites
Geshurites
Gibeonites
Giblites
Girgashites
Gittites
Hittites
Hivites
Horims
Horites
Jebusites
Kadmonites
Kenites
Kenizzites
Maachathites
Manassites
Nephilim *
Perizzites
Philistines
Rephaims
Sidonians
Zamzummins
Zebusites
Zuzims

* The Nephilim
The word Nephilim does not appear in the Bible, nor any Hebrew pronunciation of any
words translated in the Bible. But the word Nĕphiyl, pronounced Nepheel does in the first
mention of Giants in Genesis 6:4, and in Numbers 13:33 when describing the Giants of
the promised land, Cannan. These giants were apparently the original giants spawned
by the Gregori, the giant angels who mated with human females.

There are also 21 individual Giants mentioned, by name, in the Bible:

Adonizedec - King of Jerusalem
Agag - King of the Amalakites
Ahiman
Amalek
Arba
Beelesath
Gog and Magog
Gogmagog
Goliath
Hoham - King of Hebron
Horam - King of Gezer
Jabin - King of Hazor
Jobab - King of Madon
Lahmi
Nimrod
Og of Bashan
Ogias - Og's father
Perizzites
Sheshai
Sihon - King of the Amorites
Sippai
Talmai

Here is an intriguing verse showing this biblical reality:
► "And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight." (Numbers 13:33)
To put this in perspective we will show how the men making that statement came to this revelation.

♦ God decides that the tribes of Israel should settle in the land called Canaan and orders Moses to send men to explore it:
► "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Send thou men, that they may search the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel:" and "And Moses sent them to spy out the land of Canaan..." (Numbers 13:1&17)

♦ The men return and a report that it is a beautiful and abundant land, but with great walled cities and a "strong" people that were the sons of Anak living there:
► "And they returned from searching of the land after forty days....And they told him, and said, We came unto the land whither thou sentest us, and surely it floweth with milk and honey; and this is the fruit of it. Nevertheless the people be strong that dwell in the land, and the cities are walled, and very great: and moreover we saw the children of Anak there. "(Numbers 13:25-28)

♦ There is a call to conquer the land but the men give a warning about the strength of the inhabitants:
► "And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it. But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we."(Numbers 13:30-32)

♦ The cause for this great strength of these people is revealed when we find out how big the "children of Anak" really are:
► "And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight."(Numbers 13:32-33)

There can be no doubt that the people living in Canaan were either an organized tribe or group of giants living in great walled cities. This no legend found scrawled on some obscure buried tablet, but absolute biblical proof that the Nation of Israel confronted a giant race in the land of Canaan. Descriptions of encounters with other giants and giant tribes or groups are found in the Bible as well. This being true, is not logical to assume that there may have been other giant clans in other parts of the world gathered together to protect themselves from other humans, or more likely, from other giant tribes?
Could this be the reason why large groupings of giant bones are found together in caves and burial grounds all over the world? Consider the ones found only in Ohio, just in 19th Century: Conneaut 1800, Chesterville 1829, Vermillion 1858, Brush Creek Township 1870, Seneca Township 1872, Ashtabula County 1878, Zanesville 1880, Medina County 1881, Marion County 1883, Brown County 1883, Toledo 1888 and 1895, Proctorville 1892, Jackson 1897, and the Lake Erie Islands 1898.
This should give an indication that giants were not solitary beings and only found in biblical lands, but probably all over the world in great numbers. If that many groups were found in only one century in one location less than 1/1400th of the land mass of the planet, then how many more places were they located but never discovered?

GREAT LINKS ON GIANTS...

Giants in the Bible
Historical North American Giants
Giants in English History
Giants in History, Myth, and Legend
The Giants of the Cave

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...ogId=408331863

http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/N.Am/N.Am.War4.html

http://www.bibleprobe.com/nephilim.htm

http://www.genesispark.org/genpark/e...s/earthdis.htm

http://www.burlingtonnews.net/giants.html

http://ancientlosttreasures.yuku.com/forums/20

http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...-and-the-bible

http://www.creationism.org/patten/

[theglory7]

Wow AJS, that has to be the best response I have heard on this forum. There was no bias in your words, and you didn't hide behind the bible by saying, "well the bible says this, so you have to interpret it the way I do regardless of the thousands of other interpretations". In searching for the truth regarding the history of us and our planet, we have to drop all preconceived notions of how each story that perplexes us only makes sense if we can put it in this little box or bible. We accept the beginning as is, and the end as is, so everything in the middle has to fit withing these borders that we have established. Don't get me wrong, I love the bible and I think it is one of the most if the not the most wonderful gift of literature we have today, but there has to be much much more out there. I pose these questions not because I want to discredit the bible, but because I am sincerely interested in learning what others have to share. Even if I might not agree with you. I have read a little bit about "The Epic of Gilgamesh", and it sounds fascinating to say the least. Supposedly, don't quote me, but it is the oldest recorded story we have on this earth, in that it was written on stone as apposed to word of mouth. This story also has an account of a great flood, and is seen as a mirror to Genesis. Some even believe that Genesis may have been inspired from The Epic of Gilgamesh. Patriarchs like Moses would have defiantly read this having access to the libraries in Egypt.

In regards to the stepping stone:

Originally Posted by SteppingStone

My best interpretation without doing extensive research would be that Ezekiel was describing a Spiritual depiction of the brazen laver which did have wheels in the literal sense to help move it around. And this is just a guess because I'm very uncomfortable in explaining all the symbolism in the bible to say otherwise.

I wouldn't say God needed a spaceship but that the children of Israel used lavers, altars, and animal sacrifices to appease their own consciences. This process or this ritual PROBABLY took on an animalistic mindset with the people. Maybe not as bad as the Mayans offering up their own children and brethren but there had to be some carnality involved to say the least. I say this because in other passages God voices His displeasure in the blood offerings...

I'm sorry, but I do not think this is a spiritual representation of something. Ezikeal describes this very well on more than one occasion, and he describes the noise it made and what happened to the earth when it moved up or down. Of course we have to take into account that Ezikeal has never heard nor seen an airplane or any other flying machine. So his base of reference is zero, he is simply describing what he is seeing the best way he can, and he gives an accurate account of a flying machine we have today. In my opinion, this does not fit into our contemporary view of the bible box, and I am open to the possibility that this was an actual machine used by the beings on board, beings as in plural, because it was more than one creature on board.

This could very well be an extra terrestrial sighting in the bible.

[Aquila]

Josephus reflects the opinion of first century Judaism,

"1. For many angels of God accompanied with women, and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength; for the tradition is, that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians call giants. But Noah was very uneasy at what they did; and being displeased at their conduct, persuaded them to change their dispositions and their acts for the better: but seeing they did not yield to him, but were slaves to their wicked pleasures, he was afraid they would kill him, together with his wife and children, and those they had married; so he departed out of that land." ~ Works of Josephus

It should be noted that NOWHERE does the Bible state that angels are asexual beings.

Most don't realize what happened in Genesis 6. Fallen angels took on human forms and cohabitated with human women. Their children were indeed the Nephilim (Giants). The English Standard Version reads...

Genesis 6 (English Standard Version)
1When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, 2the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. 3Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years." 4The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

The ancients understood that we face two classes of demonic forces. First, we face the Fallen Angels. Second we face unclean spirits. Both are considered "devils". The origin of the "unclean spirits" is traced back to the Nephilim. The demonic spawn of the sons of God were drowned in the flood. Being neither angel nor human, their spirits were left to roam the earthly plane until the day of judgment. These are the "spirits" that seek to inhabit human beings (possession) so that they might "live again" or "live out their lusts" through the sinful individual.

[Aquila]

The Book of Enoch, found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, illustrates the opinion of the ancients.

Book of Enoch 6:1-8
1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them
beautiful and comely daughters.
2 And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us
choose us wives from among the children of men
3 and beget us children.' And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not
4 indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered
him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations
5 not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves
6 by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on
the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn
7 and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And these are the names of their leaders: Samlazaz,
their leader, Araklba, Rameel, Kokablel, Tamlel, Ramlel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Baraqijal,
8 Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaq1el, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel. These are their chiefs of tens.

Book of Enoch 7:1-6
1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they
began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms
2and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they
3 became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed
4 all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against
5 them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and
6 fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.

Book of Enoch 8:1-3
1 And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to
them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of
antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all
2 colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they
3 were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjaza taught enchantments, and root−cuttings,'Armaros the resolving of enchantments, Baraqijal (taught) astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven.

While most would argue that the Book of Enoch isn’t part of the Biblical Cannon, some scholars would care to differ. The Book of Enoch is referred to, and quoted, in Jude 14-15:

"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these [men], saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."

Compare this with Enoch 1:9, translated from the Ethiopic (found also in Qumran scroll 4Q204=4QEnochc ar, col I 16-18):

"And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgement upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

The New Testament testifies to the Book of Enoch’s influence among the Apostles. If the Book of Enoch is inspired of God, one has to take serious consideration that God left it out of the Bible for a reason. Only the most serious and studious of the faith should begin to tackle the secrets contained in this book.

[AJS]

Please note.
Neither of the two posts above are authored from me personally...I found them on the web.
I am just a farm boy...but I do love to research and read alot.

I am inclined to believe that we existed as spiritual beings of sorts (sons of God) before coming to earth to become human beings.

Our spirits come from God is pretty much accepted by everyone and our spirits will at death return to God who gave it, but WHEN we actually began is open to speculation.

Peace, AJS

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AJS

Please note.
Neither of the two posts above are authored from me personally...I found them on the web.
I am just a farm boy...but I do love to research and read alot.

I am inclined to believe that we existed as spiritual beings of sorts (sons of God) before coming to earth to become human beings.

Our spirits come from God is pretty much accepted by everyone and our spirits will at death return to God who gave it, but WHEN we actually began is open to speculation.

Peace, AJS

Interesting post.

I've often argued that life doesn't start at conception as most proclaim. Many get pretty aghast when I say that. However, I feel that to say that life begins at conception is to focus on biological processes and remove the creator from the equation. I've always argued that life begins in the heart and mind of God, biological processes simply follow his will in regards to when that life enters the world. At what point a "soul" comes to life prior to conception and what form of awareness it possesses is beyond my knowledge. I just thought I'd share that because your post brought those thoughts to my mind.

Now... regarding the term "sons of God" in the OT and "sons of God" in the NT. The terms are the same in the English but quite different in the original tongues. The Hebrew "sons of God" is "bene-ha-elohim", denoting divine beings or angels. We see the reference in Job speaking directly about angels. In the NT the language doesn't point to angels, but rather to human beings who have become joint heirs with Christ Jesus. The two are very different things. To equate the two by saying that the "sons of God" were the righteous line of "Seth" is to ignore this reality.