God does not forgive, because he never condemned.

[jfrog]

mfblume, I have a question for you regarding your interpretation of 1 John 3:19.

What does the phrase "hereby we know that we are of the truth" refer to? Or if I may rephrase the question: we know that we are of the truth by(or as a result of) what?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by jfrog

1 John 3:18-21

18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

The way I read this passage is:

We know we are of the truth and we shall assure our hearts before God because we love not in word and tongue but instead we love in deed and truth. Further, it is important to assure our hearts before God because if our heart condemn us then God does also, but if our heart doesn't condemn us then we have confidence that we are doing what is right.

Another angle of my point: We must assure our hearts before Him, because the heart can be very misleading since it is, after all, human. And our hearts can condemn us when there is no need for condemnation because we've been forgiven. How many believers suffer from self-condemnation, not appreciating the fact that God really does forgive and actually forget? Such believers have no confidence, when they should! When our heart condemns us after we have adequately repented, God knows more than our uneducated hearts know, and has forgiven us. But this will still render us defeated. However, in the same causes when an educated heart does not condemn us, we have confidence and are not downcast after we repent.

This view shows a problem that is far more common amongst believers, and of greater concern, than a heart that does condemn along with a God who condemns moreso. This is especially true since the connection I gave using the same phraseology made by Peter with Jesus shows the very point.

I was amazed when I first saw it this way, because afterwards i saw a video where Jeff Arnold preached an entire message on the same issue, and it was exactly what the Lord had shown me. I could not believe it!

[TheLegalist]

As I sit here and read this. Man has no power to condemn only God can. We can only do so as his arm of justice. Man can do whatever he wants but only God can bring JUSTICE which is condemnation or justification.

Deuteronomy 25:1 If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto
judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.

We are Gods arm in justice thus he is the authority.

KJV Exodus 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous
slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

Thus God condemns the wicked.

Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just,
even they both are abomination to the LORD.

Thus to do "righteousness/justice" is to do God's will and be his arm or a instrument of his justice toward those who commit sin. If not you are a abomination unto God and have negated HIS justice.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

As I sit here and read this. Man has no power to condemn only God can. We can only do so as his arm of justice. Man can do whatever he wants but only God can bring JUSTICE which is condemnation or justification.

Deuteronomy 25:1 If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto
judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.

We are Gods arm in justice thus he is the authority.

KJV Exodus 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous
slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

Thus God condemns the wicked.

Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just,
even they both are abomination to the LORD.

Thus to do "righteousness/justice" is to do God's will and be his arm or a instrument of his justice toward those who commit sin. If not you are a abomination unto God and have negated HIS justice.

OK, now you're scaring me!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

As I sit here and read this. Man has no power to condemn only God can.

Right. But people condemn themselves all the time, unnecessarily I might add.

[SteppingStone]

Originally Posted by Timmy

OK, now you're scaring me!

Bro you crack me up..

[theglory7]

To kind of add some perspective on this.......I heard this quote in a movie "As it is in heaven", a very good movie I might add. There was this priest or minister of this small town, and he was condemning everyone around town, and then committing sin himself. This minister was married, and his wife said this to him in frustration because of his hypocrisy because here he was condemning everyone around town, handing out judgments, but then doing worse things himself. Then begging God to forgive him, and his wife yelled this at him. I thought it was very profound to say the least. In a way most of the problem is us condemning us, like everyone has said. And no one has the right to judge or condemn anyone, that was the main arguments Jesus has with the pharasis and Sadducee, because they were always judging and condemning. The truth is if we don't judge anybody else, more than likely we won't judge ourselves, but by judging others, we are really judging and condemning ourselves......

[theglory7]

More often then not.............God has nothing to do with it!!

[theglory7]

What about Jesus praying, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do", were they forgive? Or did God say Naaa, I'll act like I didn't hear that because your distressed my son and not in your right mind?

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by SteppingStone

Bro you crack me up..

I am at least half serious! Did you read what he said? He is God's instrument of justice!