Well Michlow, I agree with you. The spirit of God does have a role in everyone's salvation. The argument you are making about the role of the spirit is coming from the bible. So I agree with you on the spirit's role but I think the bible is equally important. I understand your argument about making doctrine more important than spirit, the bible says that God is seeking worshippers to worship him in spirit and in truth. So to me both spirit and bible are important.
I also agree with you on Paul and sexism but, lots of people see those problems and interpret paul's sexism as cultural and not the instructions of God. Even Paul said some things were his own instruction and other things were God's instruction.
I'm not sure the bible claims to be the exact words of God. The bible says the scriptures are inspired by God. So that leaves some room for human input and human fallibility. So I think I agree with your view on alot but I think I value the scriptures a little more than you. hope we can be friends.
So, are you saying that at least some of the Bible might not be quite what God wanted? That would explain everything!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
OK, one more. Promises. Even though I already know the explanation, I have to say that the promises, since they are so hard to receive (that's part of the explanation -- there are conditions to be met), are virtually pointless. But beyond that, they are an immense source of frustration and despair for the people who try to follow the Bible. Sometimes it leads to depression, even suicide. Sometimes people (usually children) die, when they try to follow James' instructions, rather than go to a doctor.
But it's funny, some of the promises could also be said to be fulfilled no matter what actually happens. You can't really tell if they were or not, so anyone who chooses to can say that they were! E.g., "I will never leave you nor forsake you". You could assume that it's true, and, for you, it might as well be true. Besides, how could you tell if it wasn't? If God either "left" you or "forsook" you, what would be different? Would you feel different? Would bad things happen to you or your loved ones? Would you feel discouraged, now and then?
Timmy, I too have frustration with promises concerning healing. I have a daughter who was born disabled and it was a source of great anguish. But promises like "I will never leave you" are actually a source of great comfort, especially when you are backslidden. I share your disappointment but I think the scriptures are one of the greatest comforts in the world to millions of people. Think of all the good that has come from them.
So, are you saying that at least some of the Bible might not be quite what God wanted? That would explain everything!
Well not all of Scripture is "thus saith the Lord". There are very few actual quotes from God himself. II Tim 3:16 says all scripture is inspired of God. So I do see room for human input like Paul's instructions concerning women for example. David K Bernard has a great book called, "God's Infallible Word". I need to reread it, but I remember it mentioning that no other book exhorts people to be good people like the bible and its' command to love thy neighbor. The argument was that if the bible exhorts people to be good then it is more likely that it is from a good God, or something like that.
Well not all of Scripture is "thus saith the Lord". There are very few actual quotes from God himself. II Tim 3:16 says all scripture is inspired of God. So I do see room for human input like Paul's instructions concerning women for example. David K Bernard has a great book called, "God's Infallible Word". I need to reread it, but I remember it mentioning that no other book exhorts people to be good people like the bible and its' command to love thy neighbor. The argument was that if the bible exhorts people to be good then it is more likely that it is from a good God, or something like that.
2 Tim also says all scripture is profitable for doctrine, etc. So, would that include everything, even the parts that aren't "thus saith the Lord"? Even the human input? See also http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=29064 for discussion of fallible men writing what they may have believed was God-inspired, and fallible men copying it and preserving it pretty well (but not perfectly), and fallible men deciding which alleged inspired books were really inspired, and fallible men translating it into many languages and reading and interpreting it.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
And what about the parts of the Bible that do quote God? Are they all accurate transcripts of God's actual words? Did those folks have a better track record than folks today? (I don't know about you, but my hunch is that quite a large percentage of people who quote God today are wrong. OK, my hunch is it's 100%, but maybe your estimate isn't quite that high. )
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Well not all of Scripture is "thus saith the Lord". There are very few actual quotes from God himself. II Tim 3:16 says all scripture is inspired of God. So I do see room for human input like Paul's instructions concerning women for example. David K Bernard has a great book called, "God's Infallible Word". I need to reread it, but I remember it mentioning that no other book exhorts people to be good people like the bible and its' command to love thy neighbor. The argument was that if the bible exhorts people to be good then it is more likely that it is from a good God, or something like that.
Pretty poor argument, if you ask me. A lot of books exhort people to be good, but they don't claim to come from God. But when you reread that book, maybe you'll find a better argument.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
So a new friend said to me yesterday: "Michelle, I need a favor...I need you to get on a spiritual kick so you can pray for me."
I laughed and said "I don't know. That's a pretty big favor!"
It was funny, because she stopped by my office, and a little while later another man (who my boss refers to as "church man" ), stopped by and we had an impromptu "church" meeting. Which mainly consisted of them trying to show me the error of my ways. But they were no match for my bible knowledge and snarkiness! LOL
Actually it was all in good fun, and we had an enjoyable and lively debate.
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