diversity?

[KWSS1976]

What did they feel on the day of Pentecost?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by proudfather

It happened to my grandfather. It happens to missionary's as allstate pointed out. It still happens my friend. So experience is based upon what you hear? What if Pentecostals feel the same thing as those in the upper room felt on the D.O.P.? Is the experience still different?

In a life time spent within Pentecostal circles I have never heard this nor have I ever been in a meeting where it was claimed to have taken place. I have had friends who claimed that it happened in their presence, but it was never a language they understood. No one has ever produced any evidence of this happening.

I try to be polite and open to every possibility - but this one just has no basis; otherwise the links and the evidence would have already filled this forum.

The question remains unanswered: How can we say that the current Pentecostal experience of speaking in tongues is identical to that described in Acts 2?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

What did they feel on the day of Pentecost?

If your question concerns the 120 who were baptized in the Spirit that day,
we don't know what they felt. We assume it was joy, wonder, and a sense of fulfillment.
What they felt is not important.
What happened is considered significant enough to be included in our Scriptures.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by proudfather

Now you're just grasping at straws. Howdo you know the experience is any different than it was in the book of Acts? Were you in the upper room?

You are reeling and punch drunk and all I did was ask one of the most obvious questions asked of Pentecostals.

How do I know? Because the Bible records these events from Acts 2:

Acts 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Acts 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Acts 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Acts 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Acts 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Acts 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

No event like this has ever even been claimed to have happened in any 20th Century nor 21st Century Pentecostal service. Ever.

Your attempt to gloss over this reality is actually quite disingenuous.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Pel, here is where you pull out the young earth quote from Ken Ham and lob it back like the R2 button tosses the thrown grenade back on COD: Modern Warfare.

(In my best Australian accent, which is not so good) No, I wasn't there but I know someone who was and he told me about it.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

What did they feel on the day of Pentecost?

Who knows?

But, if our claims to "Apostolic" and "Pentecost" are to be taken seriously we had better find some answers as to why the "demonstration of the Spirit" in our services fails to match the "demonstration of the Spirit" in the Book of Acts.

Now, no more "Grandpa told me once..." and no more, "This one missionary said once..." types of claims. Put forth real and valid evidence that Acts 2 has been repeated anywhere in the world among any group of people from the events in Topeka (1900) to this present day.

This is a time period of 110 years with literally millions of Pentecostal services, a large number of them archived, filmed and recorded. Show me one case of Acts 2 reoccurring, please. Anybody.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by allstate1

Dont get so defensive! You are not understanding my question. Read Acts2:5-11. Thats not a missionaries tale thats Bible! My question was , are the tongues in 1 Corinthians 12 the same as in Acts 2???

If they are the same kind of tongues then tongues are most definetely not required as part of a salvation experience (1 Corinthians 12 is clear that not all speak in tongues, whichever type it is referring to).

Further, it is my opinion that all the verses about tongues in 1 Corinthians 14 are speaking of the same type of tongues mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12 (If this is true it would mean that nothing from 1 Corinthians 14 could be used to support the tongues as initial evidence doctrine).

It is further my opinion that the tongues mentioned in Acts were the same type of tongues mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14. This is my opinion because we see no mention of another other type of tongues being practiced in the bible other than those in Acts. However, there are some good reasons for believing those two types of tongues from Acts and Corinthians are different. Tongues were not practiced in Acts decently and orderly. On every occasion more than 3 people spoke in tongues. In Acts there is no acknowledgement of an interpretor being present so the church can receive edifying. These things clearly indicate that either there was a different kind of tongues being spoken of in Acts compared to 1 Corinthians 12 and 14 or that the accounts in Acts happened before the apostles were fully able to understand that tongues should be practiced decently and orderly and only 3 people at most and with an interpretor.

[proudfather]

Originally Posted by pelathais

In a life time spent within Pentecostal circles I have never heard this nor have I ever been in a meeting where it was claimed to have taken place. I have had friends who claimed that it happened in their presence, but it was never a language they understood. No one has ever produced any evidence of this happening.

I try to be polite and open to every possibility - but this one just has no basis; otherwise the links and the evidence would have already filled this forum.

The question remains unanswered: How can we say that the current Pentecostal experience of speaking in tongues is identical to that described in Acts 2?

And I respond with the same question in a different form. How can we not say that the current Pentecostal experience of speaking in tongues is identical to that described in Acts 2?

BTW, if you want to get specific, the Holy Ghost was not poured out in identical fashion in Acts 10 or 19. I will admit that most Pentecostal services do not represent the original upper room experience verbatim. However, we can still feel what they felt, though the exact results may not be the same. We could probably have an identical experience, but the key to Acts 2 is "they were all with one accord in one place." As this forum proves, Pentecostals/Apostolics have a hard time getting in one accord. Maybe that's why we don't read of an IDENTICAL experience happening again. We CAN still speak in tongues and we CAN experience the same feelings that those in the room felt. Unless you were present that day, you can not tell me what the 120 people felt.