Banned from AMF, AGAIN!

[Walks_in_islam]

Can someone who practices a ministry of profit be saved?

Originally Posted by tbpew

can someone who "Robs God" be saved?

[Walks_in_islam]

I think it may be inaccurate to say that tithing was not part of the old testament law.

Your reference from Malachi 3 is tied literally and directly to specifically outlined old testament law. The law was spelled out with a specific promise. Malachi ver batum explains that this law is not being followed then repeats the promise.

Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not cast their fruit," says the LORD Almighty. 12 "Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land," says the LORD Almighty.

What the people were supposed to be doing:

Deuteronomy: The tithe was an annual event to be enjoyed as a celebration of rejoicing by the one paying the tithe and his family. To be shared with the priesthood. Every third year, all tithe was to be stored as goods in a specific place for the priesthood and the poor.

Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. 27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.

At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, 29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.


Deuteronomy 26 - again tithing referenced as annual event and specifically describing "year of the tithe"

When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the Levite, the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied.


Verse 16-19 of Deuteronomy 26:

16 The LORD your God commands you this day to follow these decrees and laws; carefully observe them with all your heart and with all your soul. 17 You have declared this day that the LORD is your God and that you will walk in his ways, that you will keep his decrees, commands and laws, and that you will obey him. 18 And the LORD has declared this day that you are his people, his treasured possession as he promised, and that you are to keep all his commands. 19 He has declared that he will set you in praise, fame and honor high above all the nations he has made and that you will be a people holy to the LORD your God, as he promised.

So, the question gets repeated. How did an annual event of family celebration of thanks with a 3-year event of paying tithe to the priesthood become a weekly/bi-beekly/monthly yoke around the necks of modern christians and please do not give out-of-context passages as a way of explanation?

And sir, I am all the way over in Saudi Arabia. If you have a computer in front of you you have a bible in front of you. This is merely study for me. Just say you do not have time or energy to look up the passages, but please do not claim not to have a bible. LOL

Originally Posted by JoeCastorina

What would make a person willingly rob God?

I'm not about to make a judgement call on someone's salvation. I will tell someone what the Bible says and they can determine if they'll comply. In my opinion, tithing also has to do with authority (See Hebrews 7). When you fail to tithe, you rob God of that authority in your life.

Without going too deep into it right now (because you guys are sucking me in ), God was not just speaking to the priesthood in Malachi 3. He started out speaking to the priesthood and then made the transition in vs 6 (I believe, no Bible in front of me) to the entire nation. He associated their lack of tithing to the same type of disobedience when they walked away from him time and time again.

The writer of Hebrews uses the subject of tithing to prove the superiority of Christ's priesthood. He shows that Christ is the end recipient of tithes. Christ is the superior, we are the inferior. The superior always blesses the inferior. That is a law of authority that the writer of Hebrews clearly acknowledges and associates with this practice.

Tithing is not a part of the OT law in that it pre-existed the law. Abraham did it (we have no reason to believe it was a one time only event), Jacob promised it to God, and many believe even Able did it when he brought the first of his herd to God in sacrifice. On top of this, only the ceremonial law of the OT was fuliflled, the moral law sill applies even to the Christian.

As for it being salvific, when we get into the mindset that categorizes each doctrine as a "Heaven Issue" or "Hell Issue" then we have completely lost the point. Tithing is not about "do this or burn." Tithing is a principle of authority, worship, submission, and blessings. To turn it into a Heaven or Hell argument is to remove the very purpose of tithing.

The lack of tithing speaks to a greater internal issue. God gives us everything we are increased with. He asks only for 10% to support those who devote their lives to ministry. To refuse God the 10% he requests is to deny his sovereignty. You rob God of his authority in your life.


That's a brief description of my take on the issue anyway.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Brother David

"Big Dogs???" You've got to be kidding. More like kindergarten.

Read the thread T.S. started about the lack of evidence for an "Acts 2:38" church throughout most of the church age. I agreed, was threatened with a ban and derided for "ignoring all of the evidence."

"Like what evidence, exactly?" I asked...

One "Big Dog" responded... "Well, you know, I'd tell you but all of my books are packed away... besides, I forget."

Another "Big Dog" responded... "I read something in a dusty bookstore once!" And then continued to deride and insult me.

Someone else said, "Yeah, yeah... and you know K.B.'s grandma told him once that it was so!"

"Big Dogs?" Gimme a break TJJJ. Toothlessness and mange does not a "Big Dog" make.

If they were "Big Dogs" they would not have scampered out of here wimpering and whining about how tough it was to preach their silliness.

TIC, TIC Pel,.....

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Your sympathy is appreciated. It has been tough times, you know for me AMF was "the best of times and it was the worst of times....................


I can tell how some behave themselves, and have sterling reputations.

<-------happy face

Bro, I am trying to figure out how to cope without the big dogs.


I think you left out the main refreshment............

Ah, the koolaid man, I forgot the koolaid man!

[Walks_in_islam]

<--------OP dont look like he's gonna come out any more.......best for him to go back to teaching "application of even coats of hairspray", "optimum length of the christian sideburn", and "church economics 101: how to spend more time raising money to teach the gospel than actually teaching the gospel" behind his closed forum.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

<--------OP dont look like he's gonna come out any more.......best for him to go back to teaching "application of even coats of hairspray", "optimum length of the christian sideburn", and "church economics 101: how to spend more time raising money to teach the gospel than actually teaching the gospel" behind his closed forum.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Ohio, you didn't answer the question. If your not interested, perhaps another gentleman from AMF is interested.

OP?

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

OP?

[Jason B]

I find it interesting (and sad) that a muslim comes on AFF and has/knows more scripture about tithing that those who will pound the pulpit and tell anyone who will isten that they are robbers of God, and hell bound it they don't fork over the 10%.

I think I'd get me face back in the book if a muslim was providing more scripture for a doctrine I am dogmatic about, but can't explain under scrutiny.

Probably feels like this:

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I think it may be inaccurate to say that tithing was not part of the old testament law.

Your reference from Malachi 3 is tied literally and directly to specifically outlined old testament law. The law was spelled out with a specific promise. Malachi ver batum explains that this law is not being followed then repeats the promise.

Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not cast their fruit," says the LORD Almighty. 12 "Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land," says the LORD Almighty.

What the people were supposed to be doing:

Deuteronomy: The tithe was an annual event to be enjoyed as a celebration of rejoicing by the one paying the tithe and his family. To be shared with the priesthood. Every third year, all tithe was to be stored as goods in a specific place for the priesthood and the poor.

Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. 27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.

At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, 29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.


Deuteronomy 26 - again tithing referenced as annual event and specifically describing "year of the tithe"

When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the Levite, the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied.


Verse 16-19 of Deuteronomy 26:

16 The LORD your God commands you this day to follow these decrees and laws; carefully observe them with all your heart and with all your soul. 17 You have declared this day that the LORD is your God and that you will walk in his ways, that you will keep his decrees, commands and laws, and that you will obey him. 18 And the LORD has declared this day that you are his people, his treasured possession as he promised, and that you are to keep all his commands. 19 He has declared that he will set you in praise, fame and honor high above all the nations he has made and that you will be a people holy to the LORD your God, as he promised.

So, the question gets repeated. How did an annual event of family celebration of thanks with a 3-year event of paying tithe to the priesthood become a weekly/bi-beekly/monthly yoke around the necks of modern christians and please do not give out-of-context passages as a way of explanation?

And sir, I am all the way over in Saudi Arabia. If you have a computer in front of you you have a bible in front of you. This is merely study for me. Just say you do not have time or energy to look up the passages, but please do not claim not to have a bible. LOL

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by jason badejo

appearently i will have to debate whether tithing is for the new testament church here on aff. Because when you ask some ministers about it, instead of scripture they shut you down.

Most of you guys read here anyway, so maybe the conversation could continue? you can use your AFF screen names, your identities are safe.
we can start with this:

the entire idea of tithing is based on a false premise, because tithes were never money in the bible.

unless some of you are too busy condeming everyone in creation to hell fire, and i know some of you are.

bump