Probably here under a different name. Or back at EA with his fellow UC's circling the wagon around one of the few token "liberals" (which are allowed to stay in order to give the UC's a unified target to bloviate and amen each other over).
Ooooo, that sounds like fun! Can I be a token?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
You are welcome to give it a shot. I got in trouble... believe it or not.... for taking a stance against magic hair, where a majority of the women on the thread(s) believed in!
You are welcome to give it a shot. I got in trouble... believe it or not.... for taking a stance against magic hair, where a majority of the women on the thread(s) believed in!
Come to think of it, I don't want to spread myself too thin. I keep pretty busy right here.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
For some reason, the highlighted statement really jumped out at me. My immediate reaction was, "How can that be?" How can standards differ from church to church? If they are "standards" then they don't seem to be negotiable. "Standards" are clear lines. But if the lines aren't clear, then there are no clear lines. If they are not clear lines, then they are meaningless, aren't they? And if they aren't clear and they differ from church to church, it would seem that inconsistencies develop.
And really, that's exactly what "standards" are....Inconsistent. TV is bad, internet is ok. That's inconsistent. Wedding rings are ok, but jewelry isn't . That's inconsistent. But for many, even wedding rings are bad. Even more inconsistent. Makeup up is bad but lip gloss is ok. Inconsistent.
The entire ideal of "Holiness Standards" seems to be a cesspool of inconsistencies. It seems that if "Standards" had any biblical foundation, it would be very clear and every "standards" church would be pretty close, if not, identical.
I agree.
Personal convictions would be a better, Biblical description of what all Christian preachers should be trying to propogate-- but the details of such would naturally vary from person to person.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
I had a neighbor who would "visit" our church, especially when there was trouble in her
home. She would tell me, "I think you have a great church and there is a lot of love here,
BUT I feel you would have a lot more people if the ladies could wear pants, makeup and
cut their hair. Lighten up on the dress standards".
Later she went to work for a while with a company that had "dress standards". She told
me she really liked to work there. She said they had to wear a nice suit, dress, etc., at
least 2 1/2 inch. heels. Said it made her feel "nice" to be dressed up! Also if anyone was
found to be "messing around on their spouse" with someone there at work, they were auto-
matically dismissed. She added that this company had found that these "rules" had made it
a better company in which to work. Made better employees.
I remember thinking, "Yes, and if the church had said that, there would have been a lot
of criticism".
She thought a lot more people would want to attend the church, IF we just changed the
things that perhaps made/helped the church be a better place to attend, in the first place.
Standards were okay in the work place, but don't have them in the church is basically what
she was saying. She and her family have gone to so many different churches of various
persuasions, but never stay anywhere very long. The same pattern, over and over.
The "perfect" church I believe is a church that is maturing as it grows. A "perfect" tree would
be one that grows and matures. In time it should produce "fruit and then. much fruit". If that
"tree" grows and matures, it WILL produce fruit. When it matures, it looks much like the "seed"
that produced it. Seedtime and harvest. That "seed" kernal of corn that was sown in the ground,
will spring forth with much more corn than that which was sown. Out of that "much" will be enough
for eating "fresh roasting ears", and also from the abundance of the "much corn" will be some "seed"
or mature corn kernels, used for replanting. Over and over the process goes. Seedtime and harvest.
Cut open a mature tomato and look at the little seeds. The seed that produced that mature tomato
once looked like those little seeds. With proper nutrition and water, etc., they became as the pattern
that produced them. We either grow toward the image of Jesus Christ or we GO farther away from His
image. He was/is the pattern. I pray that Jesus is all they will see!
Create in me Your image, O Lord.
Help me be what You've dreamed I could be.
And when You are finished with Your work in me.
I pray that JESUS is all they can see.
__________________
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis
I wish I could repeat the name Rahm Emmanuel got in trouble for using a few months ago. More appropriate here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben.nebula
on a sunday not to long ago i went to ... church in houston texas and he had women on his platform with cut hair signing and leading worship i was disgussted so i left and told one of the ushers that i did not go to or attend carasmatic church's and they told me that i was welcome to LEAVE what if i had been a sinner and needed GOD??? they also had to many lights and loud sound it was like a concert in there no way you can have a move of GOD in a auditorium like that!
elder ... wasnt even there and the church sanctuery didnt look like a church it looked like a theater for plays and concerts
-i am dissapointed[/size][/size] that they have gone away SO far from what they use to be LORD help us to stay focused on you and not anything or anybody else
__________________
A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson
Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado
Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard
Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
I had a neighbor who would "visit" our church, especially when there was trouble in her
home. She would tell me, "I think you have a great church and there is a lot of love here,
BUT I feel you would have a lot more people if the ladies could wear pants, makeup and
cut their hair. Lighten up on the dress standards".
Later she went to work for a while with a company that had "dress standards". She told
me she really liked to work there. She said they had to wear a nice suit, dress, etc., at
least 2 1/2 inch. heels. Said it made her feel "nice" to be dressed up! Also if anyone was
found to be "messing around on their spouse" with someone there at work, they were auto-
matically dismissed. She added that this company had found that these "rules" had made it
a better company in which to work. Made better employees.
I remember thinking, "Yes, and if the church had said that, there would have been a lot
of criticism".
She thought a lot more people would want to attend the church, IF we just changed the
things that perhaps made/helped the church be a better place to attend, in the first place.
Standards were okay in the work place, but don't have them in the church is basically what
she was saying. She and her family have gone to so many different churches of various
persuasions, but never stay anywhere very long. The same pattern, over and over.
The "perfect" church I believe is a church that is maturing as it grows. A "perfect" tree would
be one that grows and matures. In time it should produce "fruit and then. much fruit". If that
"tree" grows and matures, it WILL produce fruit. When it matures, it looks much like the "seed"
that produced it. Seedtime and harvest. That "seed" kernal of corn that was sown in the ground,
will spring forth with much more corn than that which was sown. Out of that "much" will be enough
for eating "fresh roasting ears", and also from the abundance of the "much corn" will be some "seed"
or mature corn kernels, used for replanting. Over and over the process goes. Seedtime and harvest.
Cut open a mature tomato and look at the little seeds. The seed that produced that mature tomato
once looked like those little seeds. With proper nutrition and water, etc., they became as the pattern
that produced them. We either grow toward the image of Jesus Christ or we GO farther away from His
image. He was/is the pattern. I pray that Jesus is all they will see!
Create in me Your image, O Lord.
Help me be what You've dreamed I could be.
And when You are finished with Your work in me.
I pray that JESUS is all they can see.
Just some thoughts.
Falla39
While a well crafted post and I enjoyed reading it the analogy has been used many times and is apples and oranges.
A church prohibiting women from wearing makeup, jewlery, slacks, etc is in no way the same as a workplace requirement for a specific type of dress during work hours. A straw horse.
A correct analogy would say a church could have a platform rule that women not wear jewelry on the platform because it can flash in the lights and be distracting. That would be a rule for a specific situation / reason.
When a church arbitrarily dictates extra biblical dress code requirements to people that are 24/7/365 it is micro management with no justification.
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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