4 Receive HG in Bible Study! - Page 4

Light · #31 02-26-2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroubleMaker

Exactly. You're making my argument for me. "If they do exactly what you've done...which is believe....they'll be saved.

And of course, the greatest mistake in hermeneutics, is to take a verse and develop a doctrine over it, for example, Acts 2:38, just to grab a completely random verse out of nowhere. Even if you want to apply the hermeneutically flawed concept of "He was talking to people who were already saved" for the Romans reference, you then have to attempt to explain away the dozens of other correlating verses concerning salvation by grace that comes through belief. You'll have to develop an excuse for all 40+ places in the NT that say essentially the same thing as Romans 10:9-12?

Come on now, a sharp Obama guy like yourself, isn't going to fall for this "But Romans is talking to people who are already saved" malarkey, are you?

It's very possibly the worst interpretational application in exegetical history.

Approximately 55 years ago I started my walk with the Lord. I followed Gods plan for salvation. I repented was baptized in Jesus name and was filled with the Holy Ghost. When I received the Holy Ghost I spoke with other tongues. Soon after I realized it was useless to try to talk with someone who wanted to argue.
Have a nice day.

TroubleMaker · #32 02-26-2010, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light

Approximately 55 years ago I started my walk with the Lord. I followed Gods plan for salvation. I repented was baptized in Jesus name and was filled with the Holy Ghost. When I received the Holy Ghost I spoke with other tongues. Soon after I realized it was useless to try to talk with someone who wanted to argue.
Have a nice day.

Well, here we have the opportunity for us to learn together, the truths of God's Word. However, I understand your frustration. It's difficult for one to have nothing with which to substantiate one's beliefs

May I correct one thing you said? 55 years ago, you followed man's plan for salvation, not God's.

And as I walk in the incredible covering of God's grace, and morning by morning experience new mercies because of His efficacious, unconditional love, I certainly will have a nice day!

ManOfWord · #33 02-27-2010, 06:10 AM

Saying it means absolutely NOTHING if not from a heart of submission. This entire salvation is not about what comes from the mouth, but what comes from the heart. It is not about saying a prayer, it is about surrendering a life. Words do not a surrendered life make.

You seem to be saying that the sound which comes from the mouth is means more than what comes from the heart. Jesus could not have been more in His teaching on the heart. A person can say whatever they want or whatever someone tells them to and if it is not from their heart, it means nothing, and worse could even be a lie.

A surrendered life produces fruit of salvation, words do not.

TroubleMaker · #34 02-27-2010, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Saying it means absolutely NOTHING if not from a heart of submission. This entire salvation is not about what comes from the mouth, but what comes from the heart. It is not about saying a prayer, it is about surrendering a life. Words do not a surrendered life make.

You seem to be saying that the sound which comes from the mouth is means more than what comes from the heart. Jesus could not have been more in His teaching on the heart. A person can say whatever they want or whatever someone tells them to and if it is not from their heart, it means nothing, and worse could even be a lie.

A surrendered life produces fruit of salvation, words do not.

......which is completely, totally, and thoroughly covered in Romans 10:9-12. If you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord......"

In your apparent attempt to add to what I'm saying, in reality you're making exactly the same point! At no point have I ever suggested, nor does the bible suggest that one only has to "say it." The entire foundation of Christ's teachings, is the condition of the heart which he first introduces in the "Sermon on the Mount" (Matthew 5-7).

ManOfWord · #35 02-27-2010, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroubleMaker

......which is completely, totally, and thoroughly covered in Romans 10:9-12. If you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord......"

In your apparent attempt to add to what I'm saying, in reality you're making exactly the same point! At no point have I ever suggested, nor does the bible suggest that one only has to "say it." The entire foundation of Christ's teachings, is the condition of the heart which he first introduces in the "Sermon on the Mount" (Matthew 5-7).

I didn't add. You just like to argue for the sake of argument, IMO. From the beginning I said that belief ALONE wasn't enough. If one truly believes, they will act on that belief. Secondly, someone can SAY something and it not be from their heart and it means NOTHING.

If someone says a prayer or "confesses" Jesus as Lord with their mouth and it not be meant in their heart, it is worthless. I assume you believe that. However you said, "Saying it means everything." (direct quote) I said saying w/o it coming from a submitted heart means nothing. So, saying doesn't mean everything. A submitted heart is everything...I can do that w/o saying anything....AND my actions will back it up.....and will eventually come out my mouth as well.

We're probably saying close to the same thing!

TroubleMaker · #36 02-27-2010, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I didn't add. You just like to argue for the sake of argument, IMO. From the beginning I said that belief ALONE wasn't enough. If one truly believes, they will act on that belief. Secondly, someone can SAY something and it not be from their heart and it means NOTHING.

If someone says a prayer or "confesses" Jesus as Lord with their mouth and it not be meant in their heart, it is worthless. I assume you believe that. However you said, "Saying it means everything." (direct quote) I said saying w/o it coming from a submitted heart means nothing. So, saying doesn't mean everything. A submitted heart is everything...I can do that w/o saying anything....AND my actions will back it up.....and will eventually come out my mouth as well.

We're probably saying close to the same thing!

You just have to take a personal shot at me, don't you? Maybe that helps you but I won't return in kind.

I assumed that you would be able to understand the context when I said, "Saying it means everything. It appears I was wrong. Since more explanation is needed, let me help you understand that when I said, "Saying means everything", I'm speaking of the process of confession in conjunction with heartfelt belief.

You see, at the point of confession, "Saying it" is the only indicator that we would have. There hasn't yet been an opportunity to know if the confession was heartfelt. The heart? Only God knows that. True, it's the heart that really makes the "Final call" so-to-speak, but since we can't know the heart, and only observe the verbal confession, in that context, yes, "Saying it means everything."

Hopefully, that's clear.

And yes, the placement of "Jesus as Lord" will begin to unfold in the new life of the new believer.

Margies3 · #37 02-27-2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Update: Had 2 more receive the HG on Sunday morning and 1 water baptism! Having another 2 more water baptisms next Sunday! Some really neat things taking place. One person who received the HG was on the platform playing an instrument with no one praying for her. She saw someone else receiving it and WHAM, the Spirit of God came on her and she starting receiving it right there! Woo Hoo!

MOW, this is part of what makes you a great pastor in my eyes. In many churches, this person would not have been allowed near the platform and certainly wouldn't be playing an instrument if they had not yet received the Holy Ghost. Good for you, brother, for allowing them to be there.

ManOfWord · #38 02-28-2010, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroubleMaker

You just have to take a personal shot at me, don't you? Maybe that helps you but I won't return in kind.

Hmmmmm......somehow playing the "innocent" card doesn't seem to work coming from someone whose ID is "Troublemaker"

Maybe I should have used more smileys in that post.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO!

TroubleMaker · #39 03-01-2010, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Hmmmmm......somehow playing the "innocent" card doesn't seem to work coming from someone whose ID is "Troublemaker"

Maybe I should have used more smileys in that post.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO!

"Playing the 'Innocent Card' "? I assumed we were having a discussion of scriptural truths and was unaware we were playing anything. I wasn't "playing a card", I was stating a fact, and that fact was, that you took a personal shot at me and that I wouldn't return in kind. True then, true now.

Am I to assume you have drawn a conclusion about me based on my username? A username seems to be a weak foundation for concluding much of anything. I suppose I could assume a few things about you based on your username, some of them positive, some negative, but that wouldn't seem to be wise. I'm positive there's much, much more to know about you as a person than merely your username.

All that being said, I'm happy to report that several in our church gatherings have recently "Received the HG" (as you put it), and I know that, of course, because they have expressed their faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead and belief in Him as Lord!

ManOfWord · #40 03-01-2010, 09:12 AM

REALLY.....I don't think you honestly know what a "personal shot" is. If you thought I took a "personal shot" at you, then, IMO, you are wound WAY too tightly. Why does it have to be about you? Did you not read where I stated that I should have used more smilies? Interpreted, that means, it wasn't a personal shot. Dude, really, take a breath and relax! The world isn't against you and neither am I.