Sweet Sister Falla...what an heritage you have in the gospel...
You said some of the same things my husband says...we all need each other in te gospel...Sad many people cannot understand cultures and history...lol...I don't think Paul would tell a woman to prophecy...sing...whatever in minutes before and then tell her to shut up...
I am glad for the time I have had to study Bible history and especially Jewish history.
I Tim. was written around 60 A.D., I Cor. around 55 A.D., can you ABSOLUTELY prove what the surrounding culture was almost 2,000 yrs. ago?
Besides, "If any man thinks himself spiritual, or a prophet, let him acknowledge that the things I write unto you are THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD." "I do not allow a woman to teach, or to excercise authority over a man. She is to remain quiet......These things I write to you so that you may know how to behave yourself in the house of God, which IS THE CHURCH...."
I mean, how much plainer could he possibly have been???????????
one who executes the commands of another, esp. of a master, a servant, attendant, minister
the servant of a king
a deacon, one who, by virtue of the office assigned to him by the church, cares for the poor and has charge of and distributes the money collected for their use
a waiter, one who serves food and drink
In scripture, this word is translated as follows:
deacons (3 times), minister (7 times), servant (19 times)
Usage of the word: Matthew 20:26
26 "It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant,
Read in contextView in parallelInterlinear viewCompare Translations Matthew 22:13
13 "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness ; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Read in contextView in parallelInterlinear viewCompare Translations Matthew 23:11
11 "But the greatest among you shall be your servant.
(same accounts in Mark)
John
5 His mother said to the servants, "Whatever He says to you, do it." John 2:9
9 When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew ), the headwaiter called the bridegroom, John 12:26
26 "If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also ; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.
Romans 13:4
4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid ; for it does not bear the sword for nothing ; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. Romans 15:8
8 For I say that Christ has become a servant to the circumcision on behalf of the truth of God to confirm the promises given to the fathers, Romans 16:1
Greetings and Love Expressed
1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea ;
BUt the LORD also calls Paul and Apollos "servants"
5 What then is Apollos ? And what is Paul ? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one.
2 Corinthians 3:6
6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit ; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 6:4
4 but in everything commending ourselves as servants of God, in much endurance, in afflictions, in hardships, in distresses, 2 Corinthians 11:15
15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds. 2 Corinthians 11:23
23 Are they servants of Christ ?-I speak as if insane -I more so ; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death.
Galatians 2
17 "But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin ? May it never be!
Ephesians 3
7 of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God's grace which was given to me according to the working of His power Ephesians 6
21 But that you also may know about my circumstances , how I am doing, Tychicus, the beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, will make everything known to you.
Philippians 1
Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers and deacons :
7 just as you learned it from Epaphras, our beloved fellow bond-servant, who is a faithful servant of Christ on our behalf,
Colossians 1:23
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister. Colossians 1:25
25 Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, Colossians 4:7
7 As to all my affairs, Tychicus, our beloved brother and faithful servant and fellow bond-servant in the Lord, will bring you information
8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain, 1 Timothy 3:12
12 Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households. 1 Timothy 4:6
A Good Minister's Discipline
6 In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following.
How did Paul most use this word? What kind of people did he describe? Just questions to consider.
Good stuff Jeffrey, wil look at this in more detail later. Have to help preach a funeral today.
Godsdrummer, I don't think those who oppose women pastors are making women a "lower person." There is still social order, though equality (see 1 Cor 11 for that). You believe this, as you even added that women are subject to their husband, which I agree with.
You misunderstand my meaning about women subjection to thier husband. This is where things come down to a decision that needs to be made then the is the final say in things. But for the most part the woman is his help meet His equal. I have seen to many men treat thier wives as if they were a servant with no say in things. This is not how God intended things to be.
__________________
Study the word with and open heart For if you do, Truth Will Prevail
As I have said before, so say I again: The NT is foundational and typlogically established based from the OT. What is found in the NT is based upon the OT, and if no OT base is found, there is no foundation for belief. While so far as we directly know today by scholarship and up-to-the-minute research, we do not see women historically in the role of Pastor or any leadership role.
However, there are some Biblical considerations that must be studied.
God is sovereign and can do anything He chooses to do. The most prominent OT female leader was Miriam, sister of Moses and Aaron. Miriam was involved in a rebellion against Moses when he married an Ethiopian woman (Nu 12:1-2). Both she and Aaron claimed to be prophets, but God heard their claims against Moses and rebuked them. Because of her part in the rebellion against Moses' leadership, Miriam was stricken with leprosy. However, Moses interceded for her, and she was quickly healed (Nu 12). But note that Israel would not move the Camp without her complete restoration. But, after her restoration, she is not mentioned again in the Bible until her death and burial at Kadesh.
DEBORAH, the fifth judge of Israel, a prophetess and the only female judge of the 13 in the Book of Judges (see Jdg 4-5). The Bible tells us nothing about her family except that she was the wife of Lapidoth. Deborah's home was in the hill country of Ephraim between Bethel and Ramah. The palm tree under which she sat and judged Israel was a landmark; it became known as "the palm tree of Deborah" (Jdg 4:5).
Deborah summoned Barak (Jdg 4; 5:1; Heb 11:32) and told him it was God's will that he lead her forces against the mighty warrior, Sisera. Sisera was army commander of Jabin, king of Canaan, who terrorized Israel for 20 years. Barak accepted on one condition: Deborah must accompany him. Deborah and Barak's army consisted of only 10,000, while Sisera had more fighters and 900 chariots of iron.
If there is any one thing the Bible clearly establishes, it is that the male dominates while the female subordinates, but the admonition is clear in the NT, that Jesus loved His bride and "GAVE HIS LIFE FOR HER," as any good husband would do. This concept is established from God.
Therefore, the final example of the role of females in the Kingdom of God is the Bride, the NT Church.
1. The Bride is made up of all believers, both male and female, but is under the leadership of the Bridgegroom, Jesus.
2. Under His headship, there is NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE! And the male and female saints become one FEMALE, united to Him. Under that elevated role who can distinguish male and female? In heaven are there such determinations made? No!!!
3. In heaven there are no males nor females, again I say, to emphasize the point that since we are now already dwelling in our eternal life, and we sit together with Him in heavenly places, there are now no males nor females -- only believers, who comprise the CHURCH.
4. How can such a position be made? He is the HEAD OF ALL, and "ALL" refers to "everything" (no further determinations need be made).
5. Subjected to HIM, who is HEAD OF ALL THINGS, He issues His decrees to everything that belongs to Him, and no distinctions are needed, for ALL obey Him totally.
Therefore, should He decide to send one of His "female" children -- oops, there is the identification problem again, rather, should we say, one of His "eternal beings" to do anything, they will follow His orders totally, and no other considerations need be made, except that they remain UNDER His headship.
This problem is hindering the growth and development of the Church. We argue about needless things that have no bearing on the real heavenly condition because we do not consider things from Heavens' view -- we are too busy seeking appeasements of the flesh in this earthly realm. It is not who does anything in particular down here -- it is Christ in us working through us to accomplish His divine will and purpose in these last days. Get over it, get on with the mission -- our Lord is waiting.
As I have said before, so say I again: The NT is foundational and typlogically established based from the OT. What is found in the NT is based upon the OT, and if no OT base is found, there is no foundation for belief. While so far as we directly know today by scholarship and up-to-the-minute research, we do not see women historically in the role of Pastor or any leadership role.
However, there are some Biblical considerations that must be studied.
God is sovereign and can do anything He chooses to do. The most prominent OT female leader was Miriam, sister of Moses and Aaron. Miriam was involved in a rebellion against Moses when he married an Ethiopian woman (Nu 12:1-2). Both she and Aaron claimed to be prophets, but God heard their claims against Moses and rebuked them. Because of her part in the rebellion against Moses' leadership, Miriam was stricken with leprosy. However, Moses interceded for her, and she was quickly healed (Nu 12). But note that Israel would not move the Camp without her complete restoration. But, after her restoration, she is not mentioned again in the Bible until her death and burial at Kadesh.
DEBORAH, the fifth judge of Israel, a prophetess and the only female judge of the 13 in the Book of Judges (see Jdg 4-5). The Bible tells us nothing about her family except that she was the wife of Lapidoth. Deborah's home was in the hill country of Ephraim between Bethel and Ramah. The palm tree under which she sat and judged Israel was a landmark; it became known as "the palm tree of Deborah" (Jdg 4:5).
Deborah summoned Barak (Jdg 4; 5:1; Heb 11:32) and told him it was God's will that he lead her forces against the mighty warrior, Sisera. Sisera was army commander of Jabin, king of Canaan, who terrorized Israel for 20 years. Barak accepted on one condition: Deborah must accompany him. Deborah and Barak's army consisted of only 10,000, while Sisera had more fighters and 900 chariots of iron.
If there is any one thing the Bible clearly establishes, it is that the male dominates while the female subordinates, but the admonition is clear in the NT, that Jesus loved His bride and "GAVE HIS LIFE FOR HER," as any good husband would do. This concept is established from God.
Therefore, the final example of the role of females in the Kingdom of God is the Bride, the NT Church.
1. The Bride is made up of all believers, both male and female, but is under the leadership of the Bridgegroom, Jesus.
2. Under His headship, there is NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE! And the male and female saints become one FEMALE, united to Him. Under that elevated role who can distinguish male and female? In heaven are there such determinations made? No!!!
3. In heaven there are no males nor females, again I say, to emphasize the point that since we are now already dwelling in our eternal life, and we sit together with Him in heavenly places, there are now no males nor females -- only believers, who comprise the CHURCH.
4. How can such a position be made? He is the HEAD OF ALL, and "ALL" refers to "everything" (no further determinations need be made).
5. Subjected to HIM, who is HEAD OF ALL THINGS, He issues His decrees to everything that belongs to Him, and no distinctions are needed, for ALL obey Him totally.
Therefore, should He decide to send one of His "female" children -- oops, there is the identification problem again, rather, should we say, one of His "eternal beings" to do anything, they will follow His orders totally, and no other considerations need be made, except that they remain UNDER His headship.
This problem is hindering the growth and development of the Church. We argue about needless things that have no bearing on the real heavenly condition because we do not consider things from Heavens' view -- we are too busy seeking appeasements of the flesh in this earthly realm. It is not who does anything in particular down here -- it is Christ in us working through us to accomplish His divine will and purpose in these last days. Get over it, get on with the mission -- our Lord is waiting.
Amen
__________________
Study the word with and open heart For if you do, Truth Will Prevail
I have three books in pdf format which have been distributed by the Pentecostal Publishing House that cover over 30 women in Pentecostal history.
The files are too large to add here as attachments.
If anyone wants one or more of these books, you can PM me or email me at Jim@InJesusName.us and give me an email address where you can receive pdf files as attachments and I will send them to you.
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