Can Women Pastor ?

[Sister Alvear]

Not only does the man’s wife make clothing and buy food, she also engages in real estate transactions, buys and sells...so she is no dumb bunny... she is an entrepreneur!
wow...a little different from followering 10 steps behind her husband...lol...

[Sister Alvear]

and some understanding of Hebrew says she takes a field....(BATTLE)

[Sister Alvear]

So how could she do all this and still be a keeper at home...scripture interrupts scripture...maybe we could study Deborah...

[Sister Alvear]

It seems this wise woman had it all together...

[Sister Alvear]

S
ome have thought of Deborah only as s substitute for a cowardly man but long before the battle against the enemy Deborah was ruling and guiding Israel. She was no fill in for some man but she was God’s ordained mouthpiece for her day.

Deborah held an office in the midst of God’s people. She was not only a national leader; she was a very capable spiritual leader who had good results. As it had happened so many times before in Israel’s turbulent history, situations drove them to seek the Lord. Because of this situation, Deborah had the privilege of being God’s instrument. What happened through her faith transformed Israel’s history.
Deborah had not taken this position illegally. God had given her task to her. She was given the responsibility to bring the people back to God and to free them from their oppressors. All Israel recognized her as their leader. Deborah’s responsibility was the same as that of a man’s. Deborah judged and took care of both spiritual and natural problems as she instructed the people in the things of the Lord. Her husband Lapidoth assumed lesser responsibilities. In the event that anything would happen, Eli would be the principal leader. Among the people of her time, including both men and women, Deborah was such an exceptional figure. She was likened to a palm tree to which she was later compared.
Prophetess Deborah was a mediator between God and His people. She was a spokeswoman, a bearer and a messenger of God’s Word. In her high position, she showed deep wisdom from God. She revealed His love to His people. Deborah perceived it was time to shake off the oppression that came from God’s enemies (Ecclesiastes 8:5). She showed great instruction of a person who dwells in the presence of the Lord.
Deborah proved this scripture true and exact. She not only discerned the time of God’s intervention in the history of her people but she also understood the method God would use to free His people. Deborah understood that all human authority is delegated authority (Her authority did not give her the big ego). She knew how to mix among her people, yet lead them at the same time. Deborah’s prominence as a ruler was remarkable.
Deborah received her motivation from the God of Israel. Never at one time did she doubt the “All Powerful One" had chosen her to save His people from their enemies and that once again, He would help them out.
Her order to Barak was an encouraging incentive, "Do not be afraid because of their number," she said with great confidence. "Look at your enemy from God’s viewpoint, if you do, the enemy is already defeated. Sisera's chariots are nothing in the eyes of God. The only thing He requires is faith. With encouragement, she put things in proper perspective. The prudent spiritual leadership of Deborah had a lasting effect on Barak, and caused him to be a stronger leader than he really was.
He accepted the challenge but not without Deborah. He was sure God would be with his army if Deborah (a woman) would go with him. He recognized her as being superior to him both in faith and in courage and in calling. However, because of these experiences Barak was among those mentioned in Hebrews 11.
Even though Deborah’s attitude helped Barak become a hero for God, there was no competition between him and Deborah. They both functioned as instruments in God’s plan. They worked together for the good of a whole nation. They must have felt confident that God could use a woman. Even though she was the wife of Lapidoth she was the champion of God.
Deborah and Barak were in unity. Each one helped the other. Both went to Kedesh, which was not far from where Jabin lived. Barak enlisted soldiers and together Barak and Deborah went by Mount Tabor and looked upon the plain of Zaanaim where they could see God’s enemies. Yes, it was Deborah who was responsible for all the decisions.
On the day of battle, God revealed His perfect will to Deborah. "And Deborah said to Barak, up for this is the day in which the Lord hath delivered Sisera into thine hand; is not the Lord gone out before thee?" So Barak went down from mount Tabor, and ten thousand men after him (Judges 4:14). There was no need to be afraid of Sisera; it was not a battle between men, but Sisera would fight with God. The results of the battle were decided before it began. The victory would be God’s. God would fight on Deborah’s side.
On the river of Kishon the battle was fought. The enemies with iron chariots thought that they would have an easy win because the Israelites were weak. But someone from on high was watching as the soldiers gathered together. The stars (Angels) in their courses fought against Sisera. The river of Kishon swept them away. The horses's hoofs were broken. A storm came; rain fell and God in his great power, punished Sisera and all his army. So the enemy perished and God’s rule was once again established under Deborah’s leadership.
Generally, it was men who led in this historical spiritual and natural warfare but this time the leader was a woman. God does not always work according to fixed standards. He looks for people, who are willing to be used as His instruments, whatever way He chooses. Deborah did not use her power improperly. She simply lived to fulfill her responsibilities. She was a fascinating woman who knew how to do many things. Being a strong spiritual force, she was able to instruct the people in the laws of God. All Israel was under her jurisdiction. From the palm tree bearing her name and else where called "the Sanctuary of the Palm," she dispensed righteousness, justice, and mercy.

[Sister Alvear]

She knew how to use both pen and sword; however, her greatest force was not human force, it was a God -given force. In everything she did, she depended upon God. Deborah’s song of victory belongs to some of the oldest, most beautiful poems of Hebrew history.
As Solomon said, Deborah’s life was impressive. Even though God had placed her first in a song, she reserved space for others. Barak and Jael were carefully mentioned. She only considered herself a mother in Israel. Deborah is one of the most distinguished women of Bible history because of her character, her leadership abilities and her poems. Certainly she lived an interesting life; the secret of her life was in Jehovah God.
She showed what a woman could do when God takes over and is in full control. Can you imagine a woman governing the people of God? See Judges 4:8; here is a woman governing (ruling) Israel in the time of the Judges. Even though the devil was fighting against her each step of the way, here is a woman that rises above her disadvantages. A notable fact that a man was happy to follow the leadership of woman!
Under her capable leadership, Israel experienced forty years of peace and prosperity. I think one of the reasons we have stories such as Deborah’s governing Israel is that God wants us to understand the opportunities of women in the New Testament and especially in the millennium.
What did it mean for Deborah to judge the nation of Israel? The concept of a judge to the Hebrews was one that governed. It means vindicate, judge, punish, govern, litigate, defend, plead, reason and rule (Strong's #8199). It also meant a bringer of justice.
Deborah is considered one of the wisest women in the Old Testament. All her activities didn’t hinder her from being a good wife. As judge, she exercised authority in legal matters. As prophetess, she proclaimed the Word of God under divine inspiration. As poet, she wrote poems; she was a gifted woman. She exercised political leadership, military leadership and religious leadership. It would not be an exaggeration to suggest that many men filled the post Deborah occupied with fewer results. A woman that occupied such a great official position could not be inferior to man.
Some have said there is a difference between a prophetess and a preacher. Young’s Analytical Concordance on page 71, tells us that the Hebrew word "Nibah" is a female preacher. So at the death of wicked Ehud, God raised up a woman, a nibah to lead His people.
Deborah was like Joan of Arc, who twenty-seven centuries later rode in front of the French Army and led them to victory. Both women came from nowhere, and led armies of ten thousands of men to victory over their oppressors-Joan of Arc at Orleans and Deborah at Mt. Tabor in Northern Israel. England will never forget the bold deeds of Margaret of Anjov, who was at the head of the northern forces that swept over that country like a wind, destroying armies and tearing down thrones.
If we were to give ears to some "modern day" teaching, Deborah would have never ruled Israel. With or without "modern day approval," God used Deborah as His mouthpiece. Since when does God need someone to counsel Him and tell Him whom to call to do His work?
Deborah was the one God chose. She through obedience brought victory. Deborah had forty years of peace even though her only human allies were two tribal groups of soldiers and one cowardly general.
In Deborah, we find the leadership skills of Moses, the military powers of Joshua, the God of Abraham and the poetic ability of David all combined in one lowly woman in whom the mouth of God rested. Beneath the gore, the story of Deborah and Jael demonstrates that courage and genius knows no gender. Jewish tradition says that Deborah was keeper of the tabernacle lamp.
Her name means "a bee". Surely she was a bee to the enemies of God. This story illustrates the Hebrew belief that God could communicate messages of vital importance through either men or women. No character in the Old Testament stands out in bolder relief than Deborah-prophetess, ruler, warrior, and proctor.
Meroz was cursed because they came not to the aid of the Lord - not helping Deborah was not helping the Lord. Helping Deborah was helping the Lord!

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by rdp

Sheesh, this is about the 4th time that I've told you that history-cultural does indeed play a part in [the "whole process"] exegesis, but they do not celebrate the authority that Scripture itself does. What in the world can you not understand about this??

And don't blame me if you're obviously new to apologetics. You're the 1st person to EVER say that "apologetics has nothing to do w/ the conversation"??? Not real sure what to say about that one!

Gotta' go.................................

I think you are missing the point on the history-cultural part. Just as God handed down the Law to Isreal because of disobediance. This was not a eternal comandment it was for their time. Even then the Jew took and made the law a list of thou shalt nots as the Pharisee were practicing in Jesus day. So yes we must consider what and why Paul was writing what he was. To just say this verse says "women should keep silent" and use the authority of scripture statement is ludicrus, and this is why we have so many false doctrines. Too many live by the letter of the law and not the spirit of Gods word.

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Of course Im sure you already have an explanation but here is something to ponder. Paul does not comand here nor does he say this is a law from God. This is not a comand from God this is Pauls opinion. Yes he basis his opinion on OT tradition but this is still not a command from God.

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

As for 1 Cor. let me point out just one thing here to back up the way I see this.

1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
What does the law have to do with anything here. For after Christ we are not under the law. Further where in the law is the women commanded to be under obediance as you are saying. I would like to know what OT passage Paul would be refering to because I sure cant think of one. Maybe Im just getting old.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

yes, you may Timmy...I wept and told her that if her mother was lost then someone else was lost for not going to her...I am a believer in Acts 2:38...however to whom much is given much is required...t those that are given little, little is required..these things of destiny we must leave in the hands of a just God I just do all I can to reach every person possible in my life time with the means I have...

Originally Posted by Timmy

Do you believe that is true for everyone that dies lost? That someone else was supposed to tell them how to be saved, and didn't, and that someone is therefor also lost?

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Timmy, I really don´t know how God sees everything...for He sees the whole picture. I TRY TO STAY FOCUSED on the fact he called me and I must do all I can. I am certain many do not hear because of those that do not go...I weep over the great knowledge we have and the gross darkness others live in. As long as I am able I will reach out to others.

Do you really believe what you told that woman? That if her mother was lost, that someone else was lost for not going to her? And did you tell the woman anything else? What was her reaction? Did it comfort her to know that someone else was also being punished?

[Sister Alvear]

The Greek philosopher, Aristotle’s teachings, which strongly influenced the Greek society and all of the Western world, stated that "to be born a woman is a divine punishment, for a woman is halfway between a man and an animal."

It might be good to read and understand the culture when Paul wrote in Ephesians 5:23 and 25: "For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church," and "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the Church and gave himself for her . . ." he is actually empowering women in that context. for in their cultre a woman was nothing...

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I have asked Brother Scheel to join AFF and come defend his book...I have no idea where in the world he may be since he constantly travels. I know he got the message he e mailed me..

No problemoooo. Only problem on my end is that I don't own a home computer & have to quote from memory in the library. Thus, I don't have all of my study material right in front of me [such as Lexicons, References, etc.]. Moreover, my time is often limited to 30 min. on library computers.

Having said all of that, I've already anticipated this & will gladly interact W/ Bro. Scheel, so long as he keeps it civil/respectful. From what I know of him, I would agree w/ his every doctrine save his "women preacher" doctrine.