Can Women Pastor ?

[DeepThinker]

I for one have no trouble with women preachers. I know Paul speaks about it, but I think there has to be a balance between what he said and what he said about there is neither male nor female but we are all ONE in Christ Jesus. These are important statements.

One time I had this dogmatic way until God used a woman to minister to me. I was humbled by the hand of God.

I don't believe this is a cut and dry issue. There has to be a balance and only the Holy Spirit can reveal to us exactly what He gave to the Apostle regarding this subject. There is no amount of Greek we can read to get the full meaning, we must hear what the Spirit is saying to the Church. Only the Holy Spirit can make sense out of this mess.

The problem is, very few want to hear.

[Sandy]

I believe a woman can do all that a man can in the church, if she is indeed in the church that is.

Believing this simply because of what the following scriptures tell us about this issue about mankind written in Gal.
27; For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on christ.
28: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither MALE NOR FEMALE: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Not sure if anyone shared that on yet or not. But if so, will do so again.

The scripture most say that a female cannot do this written in 1st Tim. chapter 2, is speaking of the one that is not yet the bride, thus not being in that place which Paul speaks of yet written in that scripture I quoted in Galatians yet, the last verse in that entire dissertation proving what I am saying there, if you can receive it, where it says the following in 1st Tim. 2
15: Not withstanding she shall be saved in childbearing. If they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

That is not physical childbearing one gets saved thru certainly, but spiritually bringing forth Christ within them, as a result of being born again and having entered into the kingdom of God as a result of what Jesus is speaking of entirely in John 3:3-12. That kingdom being written about one enters into as a result of that new birth in Rm. 14:17. In other words, being seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus as a result of their having been baptized into Him or where He is at also written about in Eph. 2:6 once one is baptized into Him of course, that one in turn also filled to overflowing with His spirit ready then to go forth in obedience preaching the Word, whether they are doing so in any authority within the church or not. This being what all in the church themselves did as well. And certainly, nobody should be teaching at all that has not birthed Christ within them yet. to children within the church or adults, either one. Which is why is does not differentiate between who a woman can teach at all. Man has done that one themselves too. Yet that not be scriptural at all to do either. In other words, in that area let your yea be yea, or your nay be nay for. If you truly believe a female should not be do any of this in the church to begin with, that is. As I find nothing that says the female can teach children only do you? If so where?

As for the scripture speaking of a woman not speaking out in church, same thing. Jesus is the one that should be doing the speaking in any church, whether it comes thru the mouth of a donkey, a woman or a man. Right? God having at one time spoken thru all three before as I am pretty sure all of you know.

We often bring things upon others unduly, forgetting that these letters were supposed to have been written to people already in the church, and sometimes speaking in spiritual terms as well as sometimes in the natural. Theirfore their referring to the bride or bride to be as being a woman, which everyone has been whether of male or female gender. Yet we seem to forget that be true I realize. And assume all scriptures have to be referring to our gender on this earth rather than realizing it isn't always referring to that at all.

Concerning this, have told you what I believe be true, And I see a picture over there that right now would be really good for me to use for now, being a newby here. So see ya.


luv ya all anyway.
Sandy

[pcharlie]

My position is one that follows scripture as best as possible. I don't speak, read or write Koine Greek, although I would like to. I do, however, have some training in Classical Greek Philosophy, and even those men had some idea of how intelligent a woman could be, and gifted, note that there was a Cynic philosopher who was married, and she attened all of his discourses, and some look at the cultural aspect, that is, the second class nature of women, who were considered little less than dirt at worst, and little less than baby factories at best in many of the cultures of the time. A possible explaination of the Scripture for "let the women keep silent", was that, since Christianity was a religion that taught, and practiced equality of the sexes, women were so un used to not only being able to learn, but even attend a meetingwhere men were, that they got so curoious, they interupted the meetings by asking their husbands what the minister as taling about, and thus broke the flow of the Spirit. Maybe there is some truth to that. We live where rights are given to animals, and we don't really have the ability to grasp the world that was then.
But what do i know...I've no degree, nor schoolin', just the Holy Spirit...:-)
Blessings, Charlie.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by rdp

I treat you w/ respect, yet you're continuously scornful. Is this what you "teach" your converts???

But to answer your question [again!]: I have given the lexical definition of "prophecy" till I could pass out, yet you just say the same thing as if it's not there!?!?!?

The Greek word "Lal-eh-o" in vs. 34 is translated as "Preach" [& is also one definiton of the word] at least 6x's in the NT, thus the context is forbidding women to "preach," not to entirely zip their lips! Or, would have us to believe that she cannot pray in church????

But, I'm sure you'll just whip out your eraser on this one too.....

Actualy preach is not the primary definition.
G2980
λαλέω
laleō
lal-eh'-o
A prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb; to talk, that is, utter words: - preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter. Compare G3004.

Sure does seem funny the word preach hear sur does stand out like a sore thumb.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Even the Pharisees were appalled at Jesus for breaking the literal law by healing on the Sabbath

Just food for thought. We have a job to do. And a job in a 21st Century where attitudes toward women are much different. Even the most conservative of families still recognize the leadership of a man-led home, but there is a respect for a human being that is moved on by the Spirit to minister to others, which includes teaching. It doesn't rub anyone the wrong way today, except those still clinging to the letter of the law, and missing the whole spirit of it. That said, I think the jury is still out on what Paul was correcting: a universal prohibition of women teaching/preaching, or a unique situation where women were usurping authority within the church?

Good point

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by rdp

The book is of very poor quality & a Greek proffessor friend of mine [David Adams, WV] did not even want to finish reading it because of the sloppy scholarship & mishandling of the Greek.

Since I know both men I find it strange you would mention names... this bothers me...davids own son works out of a church that believes in women preachers...david´s son has preached for us and I showed my slides at his church...



I have known David for over 35 years I have no knowledge that he is a greek professor...I have read some of his writings. i GREW UP in the same church MARY did. Our pastor´s wife
sister HOLMES preached to us in many church services.
and he is a smart person in books and I deeply love him and Mary however
DR SCHEELS is an oxford doctor...I have said many times I am ony a missionary and I think of souls in that matter.

I am afraid you crossed the line using names...you may have supported us and I deeply appreciate it however I know up close the cost of living on the mission field over 41 years...doing without, hunger, thrist, sleeping in the far backlands among pagan people in hammocks, I know the terror of vampire bats flying around me while trying to sleep, watching snakes in the rafters ...being bit by spiders larger than my hand on more than one occasion...I know the feeling of eating fook covered by roaches, and no where to take bathes for days...I know about riding hot stinking bues, sleeping in bus statioons, climbing mountains to reach souls...
I know about taking baths in streams full os alligators and ancondas...

On and on I could go...it is not a contest to see who is right or wrong...It is a story about the call of God on my life...and even now it has been over a year since we have had a car...I do know some about the cost of the call...

[Sister Alvear]

and if I have offended anyone I am very sorry...

[Praxeas]

I don't know if this was posted yet but NO women can not Pastor. They should be barefoot and pregnant at all times...that is their job.

[Sister Alvear]

prax sadly I know quite a few people that seem to think that.

(virtuous woman) Prov. 31 speaks of in the Hebrew a woman of strength (hayil) is used to describe men as “strong,” “mighty,” and “with competence and vigor,” especially in warfare...suddenly it is used to describe a woman...

[Sister Alvear]

"Hayil" translated "nobleand many times it is usually used to describe military might in the Old Testament (Exodus 14:4, 9, 28; Numbers 31:14; 2 Samuels 8:9; Isaiah 10:14; Micah 4:13). Interestingly, another common usage of the Hebrew word "Hayil" is "force" and "strength. "Even the Greek equivalent "Aret’," as found in Philippians 3:11, gives one the idea of "force" and "strength."

I know Godis looking for women of strength especially in the warfare we are engaged in.

Womem of valor...women such as Deborah prepared to march into the enemies territory...dear ones weak men and women will faint in battle...