Can Women Pastor ?

[Sister Alvear]

Acts 21:9 mentions the four virgin daughters of Philip the evangelist as prophetesses who lived in his home at Caesarea, where Paul and his associates visited during his third missionary journey.

[Sister Alvear]

FROM the lips of Jesus "Go tell my brethren, that in Galilee they shall see me."

"Not she with traitorous kiss her Saviour stung,
Not she denied him with unholy tongue;
She, while Apostles shrank, could danger brave
Last at the cross and earliest at the grave.

[Sister Alvear]

Philemon 4:3. "And I intreat thee also true yoke fellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel with Clement also and with other fellow labourers whose names are in the Book of Life.

Here we have it? Paul said, "Help those women which laboured with me in the gospel." And Paul exhorts his true yoke fellow, supposed to be some eminent Christian to whom the epistle was to be presented, to help "those women" which laboured with me in the gospel. In this Scripture we have the sphere in which they worked named by the same man that said "Let your women keep silence."

Those women labored with Paul in the gospel, and Paul beseeches his "true yoke fellow" to take hold of the work together with them.

I doubt that the ladies needed help making tea or ironing...lol...

[Sister Alvear]

"Let your women keep silence" is thundered at me from almost every quarter. Now if you are going to abide by Paul's words "Let your women keep silence" strictly, then a woman would be breaking the rule to sing in church or teach in Sunday school. Silence is silence. Stick to it now, if you believe in it so ardently. But pray tell me where is the preacher who objects to the women members of his church singing in the choir and teaching in Sunday school?Women could not even recieve the Holy Ghost...could not utter a prayer much less give a word from the Lord.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by rdp

You show above that all you're concerned w/ is being "right". I've already told you that he's not my "pal," yet you persist in calling him such, revealing your own arrogance & scorn. Daniel Wallace is a great Greek scholar, but NO I do not embrace his every doctrine. But there's a difference in "textual issues" & "theological issues".

If the text was not in the original manuscripts, then the "hundreds" of scholars would not have included it in the various translations. I suppose that you'll now stand in opposstion to these linguistical scholars [about 1000 total]???? Sorry Charlie try again.

Can't respond for a few days, try to look in after the 1st. Blessings......

A couple days is always a couple hours for you ha

I wasn't attacking, I'm responding to what are just arrogant personal insults yourself. Read what you write. Take a breath and read it again, and you tell me how you'd perceive it in someone else's shoes. If it's a personal attack by me pointing it out, then I guess the score is even.

You haven't adequately dealt with your unbiblical distinction between "sermonizing" and preaching. I think this is a huge vulnerability for your argument.

Yes, a majority of scholars are not anti-women pastors. True. This has nothing to do with the Jews accepting Jesus or not. This has to do with Christian scriptures handled by men much smarter than you and I over the last several centuries. That's not just a discounted debate point either. And to say no "real scholars" consider the 1 Cor 14 theory that it wasn't in the original is bogus. Hopefully, you don't consider Gordon Fee a maverick scholar. I'm not terribly familiar with Wallace, but I've read enough exegetical commentaries of scholars opinions on these passages to have an idea. I'm not saying this is a fact, but it's a theory to consider. Because it's found it all the manuscripts we have available, I don't think one can say it's not there. But from a literary and linguistic standpoint, it certainly is suspect as being Pauline.

Priscilla and Aquila are mentioned 7 times in the NT, the most mentioned ministry partners to Paul. Of the 7 times, Priscilla is mentioned first 5 times-- hardly split down the middle.

Acts 18:2-3: There he (Paul) met a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had ordered all the Jews to leave Rome. Paul went to see them, and because he was a tentmaker as they were, he stayed and worked with them.
Acts 18:18: Paul stayed on in Corinth for some time. Then he left the brothers and sailed for Syria, accompanied by Priscilla and Aquila.
Acts 18:19: They arrived at Ephesus, where Paul left Priscilla and Aquila.
Acts 18:26: He (Apollos) began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.
Romans 16:3-4: Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus. They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them.
1 Corinthians 16:19: The churches in the province of Asia send you greetings. Aquila and Priscilla greet you warmly in the Lord, and so does the church that meets at their house.
2 Timothy 4:19: Greet Priscilla and Aquila and the household of Onesiphorus.


Interesting also that instead of just addressing the head honcho, they are always mentioned together. They were leaders of a house church where they both teached others about Jesus. This was before platforms, pulpits, microphone and big king-sized chairs where the elite men of God sit above the low-lifes.

2 Tim needs to be understood in its fuller context first, before we can understand the verse specifically. For example, who was Hymenaeus? What primary problem is Paul addressing? Is "peacefulness" or 'silence" the right translation? 2:8 makes us feel like there was some very angry disputes, and malicious bickering going on. Were they arguing over upper-class women parading their wealth at worship? Were they dressing like the priestesses of Artemis?

Joel's prophecy of the last days includes both men and women. Is women in this chapter really the same word for "wife?" And how does that change the meaning of the Text? And Paul's "I do not permit" -- is it in the aorist tense or present tense, or even future indicative? Is this a temporary discouraging of women teaching or a timeless principle for the church? Does it relate to the current situation or something for the whole church? As one theologian puts it:
An already established universal rule on women not teaching would already be understood by Timothy. Paul would not be writing in the present active indicative mood.

Was all of this concerning a local problem of false teachers? What evidence do we have that Paul's commendation of Priscilla teaching being just to young women? That certainly isn't even implied. There are many instances of Paul praising women who teach the truth (such as Priscilla), see Acts 18:2,18,26; 1 Cor. 16:19; and Romans 16:3; Phoebe, a "diakonon" servant/minister in Romans 16:1, Junia in Romans 16:7, "outstanding among the apostles" Nympha, and "her house church"-- the only leader mentioned by name in Laodicea, Col. 4:15. Also Euodia and Syntyche who "contended at my side in the cause of the gospel" verbally wrestling with unbelievers, Phil. 4:1-3. He hails many other women as co-workers in Christ Jesus. If Paul had issued a blanket edict against all women teaching everywhere Paul would have reprimanded these women instead of praising them!

What does the word prophesy mean in Paul's usages? It does not exclusively refer to foretelling of events. Granted, prophesy is certainly not teaching, but on the matter of preaching, I don't see a difference here. Both are inspired utterances intended and given to the church for its edification.

You are always "amazed" at everything I say. Everything you say is a homerun, and everyone else is a strike out. Now THAT'S amazing to me! Yes, Paul was very egalitarian. I challenge you to consider a class on the Pauline epistles. No other NT figure said that there was no more class distinctions between Jews or Greeks or men and women. Paul's working and dealing with women is unprecedented.

I think 1 Tim 2 needs to be discussed and I can understand the passion on the issue. I'm not certain enough to make a position on this. Fact is, is this really a problem in North America? The congregations of women pastors are 80% women -- in other words, men aren't flocking there. But neither does this exclude women from being sent as Apostles and missionaries and into their neighborhoods, to tell people about our Master Jesus.

[Sister Alvear]

If Paul meant silence as traditionally interpreted, why did he contradict himself by saying women may pray and prophesy? And why would he equate the woman’s ministry with the man’s in the same statement? (1 Cor. 11:4) Would the apostle permit the women to pray and prophesy in chapter 11:5 and then reverse himself and tell them to be silent in chapter 14:34-35

Of course he was not talking about preaching....
there is NO law in either testaments that forbid a woman to preach...Acts 8 teaches they went everywhere PREACHING...

[Sister Alvear]

Theoretically women can’t serve as missionaries since they would undoubtly teach adults, including men, the way of salvation. They can’t teach Sunday school. They can’t sing in the sanctuary choirs (remember church music carries a message.) Many of the same churches that prohibit women teaching or preaching, do not hesitate a second when inviting women to sing in the choir or as soloist. Frankly it is hard in light of scripture to separate this effective ministry from preaching since only the method of delivery differs, the context of the message may be the same. Tradition demands that we neglect hundreds of Scripture exhorting believers to raise their voices and praise the Lord in the midst of the congregation (e.g. Ps. 95). Praise is always vocal and at times exuberant and loud (Rev. 19:1-6). If by “silence” Paul meant “absolute silence”, then all women must cease to praise.

(copied)

[Sister Alvear]

Nothing that present day scholars uncovered from the dust of the past can or ever will shake the fact that women were and are used of the Lord. In fact, more Deborah-like women will appear from nowhere and rise to lead armies of God’s people to victories.
More Huldah and Pricilla will appear to teach the Word of the Lord. For it is written your sons and daughters shall prophesy (speak under divine anointing). They shall only continue to prove with starling accuracy that the truths of the Bible have withstood man’s oppressions. These ladies mentioned in this simple Bible study are not mythical but are real persons who filled a real place in God’s plan of redemption.
Their lives were composed of great deeds. No wonder Psalm 68:11 says the Lord gives the word (of power). The women bear and publish (the news) are a great host. Isaiah 12:6: "Cry aloud and shalt joyfully, you women and inhabitants of Zion for great in your mist is the Holy One of Israel" (Isaiah 12:6).

[Sister Alvear]

The Lord gives the command, the women that proclaims the good tidings are a great host (Psalm 68:11 NASB).

Dr. Adam Clark gives this literal translation of Psalms 68:11: Of the female preachers, there was a great host.

Isaiah 40:9: Dr. Clark’s literal translation is also enlightening, AO daughter that bring good tidings to Zion, get thee up into the high mountain. O thou woman that publishes good tidings to Jerusalem, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid, say unto the city of Judah, Behold your God.”

Here is a list of translations of Psalms 68:11. One can certainly draw strength from. “The Lord giveth the word, the women that published the tiding are a great host” (Psalm 68:11 ASV).

“The Lord gives the word (of power): the women who bear and publish (the news) are a great host” (Amp. Bible).

“The Lord proclaims good news, or the word, women bearing good news” (New English Bible).

“The Lord gives the word; women bear the glad tidings” [a Vast Army] (New American Bible).

“The Lord gave matter to the women to tell of the great army” (The Geneva Bible).

“The Lord gave the command and many women carried the news” (The Good News Bible).

“When the Lord sent news of victory, the women who told it were a mighty host” (James Moffatts Translation).

The word “publish” in Hebrew is “basar” (Strong’s 1319), which means “to announce (glad news); messenger, preach, publish and shewforth.”

The Bible teaches a “vast army” of women proclaimers. According to Strong’s 6635, it means “A mass of persons.”

[Sister Alvear]

I once was invited to a Spiritist Christmas party...the witch doctor spoke, the priest spoke and of course when my chance was given I spoke...I sure did not tell those men I cannot speak in your presence...lol...and I prayed the witch doctor through to the Holy Ghost! Right there in their christmas party...