Lot's Revelation of Grace

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Absolutely.

However, I will say that I believe one can commit unrighteous acts and still be declared righteous by God (justification).

Would they first have to repent of those unrighteous acts to be justified by God?

[rrford]

RevDWW, thank you for those last two posts. Evidently, I am so flummoxed over the whole thread being misinterpreted by a couple of folks, that I can't communicate my responses better. Thanks for the assist. With that, I am out.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by rrford

It seems I am talking to a wall. Sorry. Is it so difficulat to understand that Peter may not have been speaking of the end of Lot's days but rather the events of his entering into Sodom? Are you saying that if there is ever a singular verse that attests to one "righteousness" or "rightness" then nothing can take that away?

Judas was okay? Korah was okay?

There is no indication that Lot was declared unrighteous, yet the Scripture is very clear that he was declared righteous. Peter was speaking from the perspective of Lot having all ready completed his race, it would seem a little odd to speak of him as righteous if that was not the case.

[EA]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

It appears as thought Peter is talking about Lot while he lived in the Sodom, being uncorrupted by it and rescued because he was just. It doesn't seem to take into account what followed after he left Sodom.

As to the charge of incest, it sounds more like the daughters abused the dad and he didn't knowingly participate.......

Gen 19:33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

Gen 19:35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

So perhaps his righteousness was not sullied because of their unbelief?

He is without excuse.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

I do not know, and neither do you. The Bible does not say anything about his wife, or even where she came from.

She was either a sister or a niece or a first cousin. Acts 17:26

[rrford]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

He is without excuse.

Agreed. As would we all be in similar circumstances.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

He is without excuse.

How so? Because of his unbelief and fear? That is a possibility.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by rrford

I never said any different than what you have just stated. In fact, if you only knew what I actually teach we would be in close accord I assure you.

My point was that Lot mistook mercy for grace. That can be dangerous. Sorry so many missed the point.

Not from what I read in your first posts. Now maybe it's me, or maybe you could be a little more careful to say exactly what ya mean about these things.

Just wanted to add, using storys is bad because not everyone sees the same in the stories that you do. They illustrate your concept for some and totally confuse it for others. What you are seeing here is that in action.

[EA]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Abraham married his sister, and any way you slice it Seth married a close relative.

HALF sister, and ftr, Lot having sex with his daughters was not within the confines of marriage. Btw, I am just about through with you arguing that incest with ones daughter is okay in the eyes of God.

How far are you willing to take that argument?

The logical conclusion is that if God okayed it for Lot, it's okay for guys to have sex with their daughters today.

That is downright screwy.

[EA]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

She was either a sister or a niece or a first cousin. Acts 17:26

Perhaps, but Baron cannot produce evidence that proves, without doubt, that she is any of the three.