Can Women Pastor ?

[Nitehawk013]

I have no issue with a woman preaching. I know that may draw some ire. HOwever, I cannot accept scripturally the idea of a woman Pastoring or holding an office of power over men. Scripture stands against this idea.

I think the problem is simple. Some women have doen it in the past and weren't struck down, so people accept it as an acceptable practice.

They are missing the fact that sometimes God permits things he does not approve of. Read that beloved book some more. God permitted his people to do some horrible things (like adultery, polygamy) but His word never approves the practice. So I guess because God doesn't strike them all dead that means He approved of the practice right? NOT AT ALL.

Many women have taken churches and done great works. No doubt about it. God permitting them to do so because men wouldn't stand up and answer the call doe snot equal God's approval of their actions. His WORD must be the final authority. Not any signs, wonders or "results" you want to parade as proof of the approval of their ministry.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by rdp

"BRETHREN,be not many TEACHERS, ....."

The early church, as defined in the Bible [not Catholic "church" councils], did not even consider women in the place of a minister. No more than they considered Jesus to be the "2nd person in the trinity."

RDP, allow me to introduce you to Phoebe, a succourer of MANY, including Paul.

succourer

prostavti
Transliterated Word
Prostatis
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pros-tat'-is Noun Feminine
Definition

1. a woman set over others
2. a female guardian, protectress, patroness, caring for the affairs of others and aiding them with her resources


That doesn't mean she was set over other women, but over men as well. Paul even instructed men to do as she bid them.

Oooh, wonder who's authority she was usurping?? Or do you think God was displeased with Paul for not picking a man for that job?

Oh wait, she didn't minister, did she? Or did she? Do you really know?

Then let me introduce you to Priscilla, who ministered to others as well as her husband...unless you think she was too busy cooking and cleaning while her husband shared the Word of God...but that's not what the Bible says, is it?

Deborah and Huldah also ministered, even called by kings and priests to give a Word from God to them. Why couldn't the priests just do that themselves? Why did they call women to do it?? Wasn't that against the will of God?

Your tires are flat. No more air.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

I have no issue with a woman preaching. I know that may draw some ire. HOwever, I cannot accept scripturally the idea of a woman Pastoring or holding an office of power over men. Scripture stands against this idea.

I think the problem is simple. Some women have doen it in the past and weren't struck down, so people accept it as an acceptable practice.

They are missing the fact that sometimes God permits things he does not approve of. Read that beloved book some more. God permitted his people to do some horrible things (like adultery, polygamy) but His word never approves the practice. So I guess because God doesn't strike them all dead that means He approved of the practice right? NOT AT ALL.

Many women have taken churches and done great works. No doubt about it. God permitting them to do so because men wouldn't stand up and answer the call doe snot equal God's approval of their actions. His WORD must be the final authority. Not any signs, wonders or "results" you want to parade as proof of the approval of their ministry.

Surely you aren't comparing women pastors to adulterers and polygamists! Those are sins, and God doesn't allow sin to occur in His name.

Don't forget that Miriam stood with Aaron and Moses as a leader of Israel, and it wasn't because men wouldn't stand up and do the job instead. Why people make that claim as if God didn't have resources is beyond me. Never ONCE in the Bible will you find God resorting to using someone thought to be 'second class' because who He wanted wasn't willing or available. You will, however, find Him 'forcing' people to comply with His commands. Read Jonah's story.

Mic 6:4
For I brought thee up out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of servants; and I sent before thee Moses, Aaron, and Miriam.

[Sister Alvear]

Well, you precious ones that do not believe in women in ministry just pray for us...If by me helping thousands will mean I am lost I am more than willing to be for I am one and they are thousands...

[rdp]

Ol' Pheobe is gonna' be forced into the ministry by some in spite of what Paul [same writer of Rom. 16] COMMANDS in I Tim. 2:11-15, I Cor. 14:34, I Tim. 3:1-9, etc. ad nauseum.

Read Rom. 16:1-2 for what the literal text says. Pls. see Strong's & W. E. Vine's Expository Greek definitions of "servant" & "helper" & do not be selective in which definitions you choose [as you've done above]. Word definitions are applicable in light of context, & the literal text says that Pheobe was a "H-E-L-P-E-R". Pls. provide for us where the text actually says that she was a "preacher":____________________? Again, you have assumed your pre-conceived notions into the text that never states the same.

The Priscilla argument is downright silly. Simply because she's mentioned in a home Bible study [w/ her husband, by the way], she's now a "preacher"????????? Talk about jumping thru hoops!

Where did Deborah, of Huldah "preach" a Biblical sermon to the Israelites? They both spontaneously "Prophesied" of God's future plans [which, according to I Cor. 11 is fine], not "preached sermons". Again, you're importing your own ideas into the text...NEVER stated by the same. Do you not fear God to tamper w/ His written Word like that?

Still waiting on you to deal w/ I Tim. 2:11-15, I Cor. 14:34, I Tim. 3, etc. Until you do so, I'll just assume that you cannot. Pls. spare me your theology, I'm only interested in the actual text itself.

Sis. Alvear's devotion to the cause of Chrsit honestly moves me, yet, I have to RESPECTFULLY disagree w/ her Biblically. As far as eternal judgement goes, God will be her judge, but as for me & my house, we're sticking w/ the Book....feel safer that way.

[rdp]

Heavenlyone: Where did Miriam EVER "preach" from the Law to the Isrealites. Read the song of Moses account closely, it SAYS, that the "W-O-M-E-N went after her"....not the men. Hmmmmmm.

Out of pocket for about a week soon. Will try to respond when I can.

[Sister Alvear]

"Phoebe is entrusted with not just a letter, but is entrusted with Romans—a letter inspired by the Holy Spirit as Scripture and Paul’s deepest, most thoughtful theological letter that outlines salvation by grace through faith. This letter is the center piece, the great work of the Apostle who wrote most of the New Testament…entrusted to Phoebe, a woman".

Makes you wonder why Paul did not entrust this precious letter in the hands of a man...lol...

[Sister Alvear]

and I am not about to enter the debate...however I thought this quite interesting I found on the net,
Christian Women in the Early Church

Blandina died 177 AD She was a famous martyr in what is now France

Perpetua and Felicitas 203 AD

These two women were famous Christian women martyrs. (There were of course many other women martyrs).

Faltonia Betitia Proba 4th Century AD

There were also women writers in the early church. She was a Christian poet.

Fabiola 4th Century AD She was a wealthy woman who gave up everything to nurse the poor.

Christian Women in the Middle Ages

Brigid c. 450-525

She founded the first women's religious community in Ireland.

Clotilde 475-545

Clotilde married Clovis, the king of the Franks who ruled northern France. She was instrumental in converting her husband to Christianity.

Berta or Bertha 539-612

In the 6th century AD England was divided into small kingdoms and the English were pagans. However Berta was from France and she was a Christian. She was married to the king of Kent. It was partly due to her influence that Kent was converted to Christianity.

Hilda of Whitby 614-680

Hilda was an influential woman in the Saxon church who founded several monasteries. In 664 she hosted the Synod of Whitby. (At that time there were two kinds of Christianity, Roman in most of Europe and Celtic in Ireland, Wales and Scotland. The Synod (meeting) of Whitby was held to decide which side the kingdom of Northumbria (northern England) should join. (Hilda much preferred Celtic Christianity but the Synod decided on Rome).

Kassia 810-867 She was a Greek poet and hymn writer

Hildegard 1088-1179

Hildegard was a theologian and writer. She also wrote about natural history and the medicinal use of plants. She also wrote music and a play.

Heloise 1101-1164 She was a French Abbess and she was widely respected for her learning.

The Waldensians 1175 onwards

The Waldensians were a Christian movement that began in southern France and spread across central Europe and Italy in the 13th century. Many Waldensian preachers were women.

Clare of Assisi 1194-1253 A follower of Francis of Assisi she founded an order of nuns called the Poor Clares

Julian of Norwich 1342-1416

Despite the masculine name Julian was a woman. She was a famous mystic and writer. Julian wrote about the 'motherhood' of God.

Margery Kempe 1373-1439

Margery was an English mystic. The story of her life became a famous book The Book of Margery Kempe.

The Lollards c. 1380 onwards

The Lollards were a Christian movement in England from the late 14th century to the early 16th century when they merged with the Protestants. Many Lollard preachers were women.

Christian Women in the 16th Century

Anne Askew 1521-1546 She was an English Protestant martyr

Katharine Zell 1497-1562 Neither Luther or Calvin believed in women preachers. However Katharine was an influential Protestant in Germany. She visited the sick and prisoners and sheltered Protestant refugees. She also wrote letters, which were circulated among Protestants.

Christian Women in the 17th Century

In the 17th century the Baptists and the Quakers had many women preachers. However in the late 17th century the Baptists became more conservative and began to disfavour women preachers.

[Sister Alvear]

1 Cor. 11:4, Paul sets out a standard of dress for women who pray and “prophesy.” Now many would argue that to “prophesy” is different than “preaching,” but in the Greek, the word “propheteuo” means “to proclaim God’s message,” “to preach,” and “to speak God’s message intelligibly”

[Sister Alvear]

I hope I have intelligibly told God's message to those in my reach...