Talking point: Life expectancy/Healthcare rebuttal

[Walks_in_islam]

Yep. The insurance companies have a lot to gain from the status quo. That UHC CEO who made $128 MM (what did he build or how did he add value to the company or economy again?) might have to compete for the actual CONSUMERS and not just the EMPLOYERS and that would not be a good thing at all for insurance company profits or investors would it.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Yep. The insurance companies have a lot to gain from the status quo. That UHC CEO who made $128 MM (what did he build or how did he add value to the company or economy again?) might have to compete for the actual CONSUMERS and not just the EMPLOYERS and that would not be a good thing at all for insurance company profits or investors would it.

Socialism Typical socialists. The ignorant socialists also can't get their heads around Greenberg losing 15 billion dollars in a year. God Bless America.
We don't have a cap on pay.

Now the ignorant socialists don't see the complete truth. The taxes on that 128 million is what the socialists slobber over. Even Exxon Mobil may pay 15 billion less in taxes this year. The greedy lazy socialists like to collect taxes.
If you don't like America, you would fit in afghanistan. Per capita income is under 500 dollars. One of my clients has business there. Says the dust in the air if from dried dung heaps.

[Walks_in_islam]

All I know is that it is smart for the likes of you to change the subject and start name-calling. Because you sure aren't intelligent enough to answer any of my points. (laughing @ the idea of being a socialist)

Originally Posted by coadie

Socialism Typical socialists. The ignorant socialists also can't get their heads around Greenberg losing 15 billion dollars in a year. God Bless America.
We don't have a cap on pay.

Now the ignorant socialists don't see the complete truth. The taxes on that 128 million is what the socialists slobber over. Even Exxon Mobil may pay 15 billion less in taxes this year. The greedy lazy socialists like to collect taxes.
If you don't like America, you would fit in afghanistan. Per capita income is under 500 dollars. One of my clients has business there. Says the dust in the air if from dried dung heaps.

[Ferd]

Walks, Anticdotal eveidence is no evidence at all.

facts are that TODAY in America a hip replacement wait is 16 days. in Britian it is 6 months or more.

we can both provide micro examples where healthcare in britan is as good or better.

you cannot however provide any macro evidence of such.

NOR have I suggested that the American system is fine as is. In fact I have said in this thread that it needs serious reform because there are serious problems.

YOU made the connection between Government Single Payer systems and life expectancy. YOU have done nothing to challenge my answer that Single Payer systems are the actual reaoson for life expectancy in an actual country! geez.

[Walks_in_islam]

Don't geeze me. You start this discussion with and about me get right out here and finish it. Lifespan IS a macro indicator. You saying I offered anecdotal evidence? (2) actual cases. Same time. Same thing. Same quality. (1) shows the dodging between the insurance companies and providers, each trying to maximize their profits. The other is the simple straightforward "if you pay for this these are the benefits" of a public health system. The note that the public health system had a lower overall cost to the CONSUMER was a bonus.

facts are that TODAY in America a hip replacement wait is 16 days if you have money or insurance. If you are umemployed, have no insurance, and do not have $30-$50k in the bank, then the wait is forever. You get no hip replacement at all. Forever is a lot longer than 6 months or more. But...you probably do not get out much among the poor or uninsured or unemployed - the ever growing group who your hip replacement example does not apply to at all. Jesus did get out among that group. Consider being like Jesus sometime lol and you may just learn some things and you certainly may learn that there are a lot of different people in different situations around you and that your conclusions drawn simply from your (probably employed and insured) point of view may not apply to the system as a whole. Which puzzles me because you and your company pay anyway. Me and mine did.

You can and will not see the words "single payer" in any post of mine. I will ask you not to put words in my mouth. You will and do see universal access and universal coverage in my posts. I contend that there is a clear relation between access to healthcare and lifespan. Even for the HIV positive which was your and not my silly example. You must not know that HIV is now classified as merely another chronic disease. To those who have healthcare for it. LOL You probably do not visit the sick. Jesus visited the sick. Perhaps you should consider being like Jesus.

Facts are public information and as such easy to confirm or refute. The facts show the connection between countries with public healthcare and lifespan. Since all the countries in the top of the list have the longest lifespans. LOL Pointing out the data does not mean "I made the connection" Connections are made by connecting dots between data points.

I know this: The unquestioned fact is that the US is at the bottom of the "developed country" list and tied or below a lot of the undeveloped countries. One other thing is dead certain. Neither you nor your buddies with your theoretical "hip replacement" and "HIV" example can explain why the US is at the bottom. Not at all. Nor do you owe me an explanation. I do not live there and currently have no vested interest. You owe it to yourselves to figure it out. You have the "best" and spend the most but are at the bottom. Your silly examples don't come close to brushing the surface of evidence of a reason.

Originally Posted by Ferd

Walks, Anticdotal eveidence is no evidence at all.

facts are that TODAY in America a hip replacement wait is 16 days. in Britian it is 6 months or more.

we can both provide micro examples where healthcare in britan is as good or better.

you cannot however provide any macro evidence of such.

NOR have I suggested that the American system is fine as is. In fact I have said in this thread that it needs serious reform because there are serious problems.

YOU made the connection between Government Single Payer systems and life expectancy. YOU have done nothing to challenge my answer that Single Payer systems are the actual reaoson for life expectancy in an actual country! geez.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by MikeinAR

No one's proposing gov't controlled healthcare Esther. That's not the plan or in the bill.

Right now we have insurance company controlled healthcare and that simply won't work any longer.

Can't fool people that read the bill H R 3200.

It tells us who will have healthcare
It prescribes how insurance will be provided for alll including illegals
They rejected an amendment that required proof of citizenship or legal status to obtain coverage.
It will engage a group to apply "best paractices". You don't understand that
It tells us what all policies will cover
It regulates providors of services
It will tax and collect funds
It will supervise Pharmaceutical firms
It also contains languages about how it will deal with people in non compliance with government directives.

Koolaid drinkers are gullible and actually think it is not government controlled socialized medicine.


Flu shots mandatory in New York
At some hospitals across the country, health workers must be vaccinated against flu as a condition of employment unless they have medical or cultural objections to the shots. This month, the New York State Health Department adopted an emergency order requiring tens of thousands of health workers to be immunized against seasonal flu and H1N1.

Mass government just passsed more laws on medicine. Obama wants to rule and over rule states on helathcare.